Should 1 Roach beat 1 Immortal?

General Discussion
21

Zerg have expected to win games just by building Infestor-Brood.

2 Likes
22

Broods are a dumb unit anyway

“I cant wait to build Broods so i can show off my micro” said no zerg ever.

1 Like
23

That is the way the casuals want the race and that is the way blizzard wants the race for the casuals. Blizzard has been on a mission to delete anything even resembling micro from the entire race.

4 Likes
24

Batz has lost it again.

3 Likes
25

I think someone needs to give AlphaStar the ability to log in to this forum with its account and post things. That way, whenever it loses, it can post procedurally generated QQ and become even more life-like. It would read our posts and learn how to write more effective and persuasive QQ threads.

…

What if that has been going on this whole time?!? o_O

3 Likes
26

Ironic that you claim this about a patch that gave Thors the ability to stutter-step against air units; which is arguably the most micro the unit has ever had besides focus-firing or Medivac pickups.

4 Likes
27

xD

THE THOR DOES HAVE MICRO GUYS!

Can you believe this nonsense? Terran’s design is currently overly catered to casuals to an EXTREME. They need a wake up call. They think riding a trike with 2000 training wheels is the same as BMX stunts. Blizzard needs to stop this nonsense and add some micro to the race.

1 Like
28

And your evidence of this is?. Because you would see more Pro-Terrans instead of the dwindling number we have now.

1 Like
29

→

→ Looks like a direct contradiction to me.

The latest patch gave Thors the ability to stutter-step between shots, since HIP no longer has a long delay before firing. This directly contradicts your claim.

Blizzard also certainly did not remove micro potential from any of Terran’s other units, nor did they make any changes that removes the need to micro Terran units in any match-up.

4 Likes
30

But see Terran units exist, and Batz doesn’t want Terran to ever win again. Because of GSL wins back in WoL apparently.

31

There is no effective difference between 0 micro potential and 0.0000001 micro potential. Give thors a quarter as much health, make them move 5 times faster, and make them 10 times smaller so they are vulnerable to splash and THEN you’ve got a unit with lots of micro potential.

“Micro potential” is just a way of saying “this units sucks unless properly microed”. Thors will utterly wreck at best and trade decent at worst with nothing but amoves. It’s not like a ravager that will evaporate in the blink of an eye if controlled wrong yet if controlled right can kill 15 stacked liberators for free. THAT is a high micro unit. Thors are the opposite.

You can do micro with medivacs and thors, and it can be insanely good, but not even maru bothers to do that since thors just wreck face with amoves. Go watch the korean qualifiers for WESG. He wrecks top korean zergs with literal thor amoves.

8 Likes
32

Stutter-step micro is far more beneficial than that, particularly when trying to get more shots off against retreating Battlecruisers, Carriers, Brood Lords, etc or when trying to get out of Liberator range (since you can get some shots off while you are doing it now).

Thors certainly don’t have a lot of micro potential. Terran will usually be better off microing other units; but Thors did just gain more micro potential against air than they ever had before.

A unit does not actually have to be small and fast to have micro potential (although speed does explicitly help flee, flank, or split).

There are other important factors involved such as a unit’s attack delay; which determines whether or not a unit can kite, retarget, or stutter-step effectively.

Any attempt to move a unit or change targets will trigger the attack delay on the next attack; so if a unit has a long attack delay then any attempt to micromanage it will cut into its DPS.

This is why Hydralisks have far less micro potential than Marines or Marauders, despite sharing the same speed on creep. Hydralisks have a 0.14 (0.2 in editor values) second delay before shooting. The Thor has nearly no micro potential against ground units because of its 0.595 second attack delay (0.8332 in editor values which matches the Hydralisk’s attack cooldown).

No, that is not what “micro potential” means at all. You completely misunderstood that term.

“Micro potential” refers to how effectively a unit can be micromanaged:

  • Can this unit stutter-step or change targets quickly in combat without losing a huge chunk of its damage output?
  • Can this unit effectively kite or poke with a given range advantage or will the pursuing unit catch up because the attacker has to sit for too long during/before the attack or takes too long to accelerate afterwards?
  • Can you increase this unit’s damage output by manually targeting a different unit or point?
  • Does this unit have high acceleration and speed to split quickly in combat?
  • Does this unit have the range to fight effectively while split up or the acceleration+speed to re-clump after the need to split passes?
  • Is this unit fast enough to flee or chase?
    etc.

A unit with micro potential does not necessarily need to use it to win in combat. Micro that is absolutely necessary to win in combat would be a “micro requirement” instead.

Likewise, a skill-ceiling refers to how much you can improve unit or faction’s performance with micro whereas a skill-floor refers to the minimum amount of micromanagement that you need to be effective.

To be blunt, the only advantages of using Medivac micro with Thors are to get the Thors into position to fight faster or to keep them from getting killed.

Using Medivac micro in other situations significantly reduces the Thor’s potential DPS with its ground attack or Javelin Missiles because both of those attacks have a long attack delay.
Medivac micro does not significantly reduce the Thor’s potential DPS with HIP though unless you mess it up, since the HIP attack has a very short random delay.

1 Like
33

You are having a hard time understand what makes micro potential. Lets do a thought experiment. Multiply everything on the ravager by 2. They are now twice as big, do twice as much damage, have twice the health, twice the cost, etc. They are identical to normal ravagers on a cost basis. What’s the difference? They do the same thing, but are fewer in number. Fewer units = easier micro. They are now half as susceptible to splash due to the reduction in number of units. They are half as susceptible to splash due to the increase in size. You’re looking at a massively easier unit to control. The micro would be basically non existent.

That’s the thors problem. Make them as fast as stimmed marines. Make them as fragile as stimmed marines. Until then, they have no micro potential.

3 Likes
34

As a protoss player I 100% approve of this thread. I say we Nerf both blords and thors.

1 Like
35

This…

4 Likes
36

Well I guess cyclones don’t have any micro potential then. Ever seen a battlemech player split cyclones like marines? No?

I guess the same would apply to battlecruisers and phoenixes too, huh? Clearly 0 micro potential with any of them

2 Likes
37

It’s not about cost, it’s about counters.

1 Like
38

And then rename them to the marine? Now find a Zerg unit that takes a quarter that much micro.

2 Likes
39

Wire, you know he will say that those Marines are free units now.

1 Like
40

Any unit that has micro potential as Zerg gets nerfed because you whiners can’t handle it. Broods used to have micro ability but people whined, infestors were a heavy micro unit and you whined, now everyone is whining about vipers.

To forum babies a Zerg unit is either OP or a-move. There’s no in between.

3 Likes