Blizz since you nerf stuff Into the Ground May i request sth.
Nerf abathur rlly rlly hard. The sub 4min Runs on Lock & load are Just a joke. Abathur doesnt need an Army Just His ultimate evolutions.
Or dehaka annihilating entire armies with 1 ability. Dehaka doesnt Need an Army Just the hero and His cds.
So they basically dont need an Expansion. They both stay 1 base and solo the Maps in recordspeed.
But i mean you nerf fun stuff Into oblivion May as Well nerf the real OP stuff.
Well yes they definitely chose bad path by nerfing commanders that hard in a non competitive mode designed to be fun.
Either they adjust and revert the nerfs a little bit, or players will rightly demand nerfs to other glaringly OP commanders and whole COOP will become super boring and unfun mode.
There is an entire lineup of new Brutal+ difficulties and we really do not deserve that big nerfs now; they should rather focus on minor iterative adjustments.
I Just want fun in a non competitive Mode. If they nerf These commanders better nerf every Commander thats in top of the speedrun Leaderboards.
Just makes no Sense.
Let’s be honest here. Abathur is strong. He is probably the top commander right now. He isn’t close to prenerf Zeratul in strength and, aside from speedruns, weaker than Mengsk too.
However - can’t we just stop nerfing stuff? If we all push actively for buffs to underperforming commanders rather than trying to drag anyone better than you down…maybe we can turn this stupid nerf tide?
No, Abathur and Dehaka need to be hit hard with the nerf hammer 
Abathur? No. He is cheesy in speedruns but to do well in Brutal+ you need a very cooperative partner, a bit of luck early on and very solid micro and macro. A lack of cooldowns is rough and certain mutators that routinely clear nests are rough on him.
Dehaka? I don’t get it. He is…mid to high tier, at best.
Abby’s been #1 commander for a very long time.
You already know abby dominates speedruns. It’s not even a close fight.
He also is very on par with Zeratul for mutation solo runs. While Abby isn’t overwhelmingly dominant against mutations like Zeratul is, Abby actually has 1 more mutation solo than Zeratul does. Yes, there is a mutation Zeratul can’t touch.
Abby’s been hit by nerfs a few times, but Blizz hasn’t taken a heavy-handed approach just yet for whatever reason.
Depends on what metric you want to judge him by. Torment+ ? I’d like to see your data.
And? Why are we balancing the game around something a tiny fraction of Co-op players even do?
And?
Again, why are we balancing commanders around a silly gimmick run?
I get that you are sore over the nerfs. But this is just childish schadenfreude.
You have not offered any sort of objective metric for your judgment. At least speedruns and mutation solo records have hard numbers behind them to judge by and show commander strengths when taken to the limits. And if any% runs are too cheesy for you, then maybe 100% runs are better metric, since those clear the map in a more traditional manner.
And I’m very sore about Zeratul nerfs, you got me.
Let’s request a nerf to the nerfs 
Right now, my metric is B+, in particular B4 and above. And no, I don’t need to provide any data. The onus is on you to support your claims.
If you can show that Abby is pooping all over higher Brutals in ways that other commanders aren’t, go ahead.
Otherwise - go nurse your wounds and see if you can get Blizzard to revert some of the nerfs. Right now you are peeing in the drinking water because someone refused you a second glass.
Just FYI, OP was trying to be scarstic about hard nerfing commanders.
Plus, why not use speedrun/mutation solo? I’m not a part of the speedrun/solo community, but I understand that these people can use a commander to its absolute max potential, which indicate the power level of a commander.
The thing is, I provided data. Do you want the spreadsheets for the data I offered or something?
Also, YOU made a claim as well that pre-nerf Zera and Mengsk were above Abby according to your metric of Brutal+. YOU also need to support the claim you made.
But the main disagreement here is on which metric to use for judging a commander’s strength, since obviously you’ve rejected the metric I offered.
Also, I’m still sore about Zeratul nerfs.
Yes, I’m aware. But this sort of childish tantrum doesn’t help anyone. This is someone smashing her brother’s PS4 because she didn’t get the game she wanted.
This is going to make me want to actively lobby for the Zera nerfs purely out of spite.
Speedruns…are a different animal. They reward the way Abathur snowballs immensely.
I wasn’t happy about them either.
However, the way you are conducting yourself here is getting me to start liking them.
You’re getting baited hard, my dude. Lila is THE Abathur speedrunner. He’s been at the top of the co-op game for years, so he very much knows what he’s talking about when he says Abathur is stronger than Zeratul.
The reason he is sore about the Zeratul nerfs is because he wants Abathur instead to be nerfed. He does not play nor care about Zeratul.
you can get the idea from the tone of my Posts. im not here to drag abathur down. i just want them to leave the fun in the game.
stukov: mech and Queens are better now, but the zombiemode stukov got a huge hit. some People just wanted to make a huge zombiearmy, cause fun and all.
zeratul: sure you dont Need skill for cannonzera and spamming sentries with it is kinda the obvious choice. but hell isnt it About Player choice and fun in coop?
mengsk: fast expand on a rockmap is down from 2:34-2:38 to 2:54-2:58. you are still fast, even though it feels alot worse in Terms of Gameplay. but on nonrock Maps, well you are better off just taking the 6 free Workers in your main and clear the exp later. there are a few exceptions, but still.
i mean in the end, when is sth op? well the more op sth is, the easier it is to finish Maps. sure mass artillery or mass cannon can easily clear stuff, but it Needs a certain amount of time. an abathur with evos does it Right from the start.
whats the reason to Play coop? well i guess to Play an op Version of the normal races and … ah i know have fun. if you have fun while speedrunning, so be it. if you have fun, making an unbeatable army, so be it. as Long as you dont interfer with other Players fun and tunnel directly in front of their army to oneshot the atk wave with your dehaka … oh w8. but thats not a balancing issue, more a social one.
if you would wanna nerf abathur, then the more reasonable Thing would be, to gate the ultimate Evolution Morph ability behind a 4min timewall like most heroes. cause thats basically what they are, abathurs heroes. would it feel awkward? yes. would it reduce fun? probably. does it interfer with L&L Speedruns? not much cause you still have raynor/artanis … oh w8.
see? there will Always be certain Combos outperforming others in certain aspects of the game. i mean srsly who cares. the Goal should be to bring every single commander to a Point where you have a fluid Gameplay and where you can have fun with it. im not a hardcore abathur Player, im not srsly calling for nerfs to him. i leave These suggestions to the abathur Players and how to improve him Gameplay wise.
i can Play them all decently, but i went from vorazun to stukov main, then i had my fun with zeratul, enjoyed stetmann alot more afterwards and mengsk even topped that. zeratul was not much to do, thats why i enjoyed mengsk fast expand and testing it for all nonrock Maps.
sure there are Things i would have changed About These commanders, but blizz you went to far. zeratul went from producing 5 Workers rays at 17 into Nexus fast expand, to producing 7 Workers before doing anything else then rays into Nexus. then you spam more Workers and make 2 gates where the first atk wave Comes. with that you tank some dmg till zeratul Comes out which is usually only a few seconds then you have the best economy while still being able to fend off the first atk wave. cause thx to the cost increase no 2nd legion anymore for the atk wave. the only time i use the legion beside the expand, is when i hit max supply. this is such a stupid design rlly.
on top the Stalkers. in Theory they should be a bit better against smaller enemies and worse against big ones. well as it stands they are hot garbage. back then i even suggested such a Change that every blink should deal dmg but with higher dmg values then 46%. Right now its just bad.
for mengsk there are certain Areas i would Change:
ghost: gascost reduced from 500 to 400.
Vikings: movespeed upgrade on top giving them 50% Evasion, while moving.
thor: circle range buffs reverted. instead let it place its circle 4 range away with an upgrade increasing it to 7. basically like a liberator just on the Ground Shooting up.
static d: new upgrade in the engy bay. bunkers and artillery now grant Mandate for each militia inside. this is not affected by the x2 Mandate boost from the Fusion core.
bunker: Units inside any form of bunker are also affected by the atk Speed boost from the witnesses observe mode.
masteries:
group1: royal guard Mandate boost up to 60% from 30%.
group2: royal guard cost reduction changed from 20% Overall, to 10% minerals and 30% gas.
group3: experience gain up from 15% to 60%.
make the boni relevant, for the royal guards. you cant even mass bcs, cause the experience you gain is not enough to fill all the exp bars to 3 you cant even bring them to 2. a few are 2 Rest sits at 0 or 1. 60% more exp wouldnt Change that, but it would be much Closer. someone playing bio/artillery doesnt care, but Players who are rlly heavy on the royal guard side, will take it since your biggest army means Nothing if they are srsly underlvled. bc Players will tend to go 0/30 since they Need all the exp, while thor/viking/tank Players will probably go for 12/18 split to get 1 bunker early for expanding, while getting enough Bonus exp for their army. bio/artillery will stick to 30/0. you have Variety there. currently its Nothing more then a Farce.
zeratul:
legions: reduce cost back to 500. increase the amount of dark Archons by 1 for 0 and 1 artifact and by 2 for 2 and 3 artifacts.
Stalker: increase dmg from the ability from 46% to 80%. 3 blinks are 240% + 2 more blinks in the next 8secs bringing it up to 400%. old Version would be 200% and another 200% after 8secs. which basically means, slightly more burstdmg, less overkilldmg, but if you roam the map constantly with them the old Version does more dmg total pulling ahead at 16secs not Accounting for Overkill at that Point. that would be the way to go for Stalkers. not the 46% we have now.
cannons: bring cost down to 300mins. 20% higher cost, so 16.67% less cannons. on top bring the topbar cd reduction up to 50% again and reduce the cd of the ability from 120secs to 90secs. this will leave cannons at 45seconds, so you can still Play them, but you have to think a bit more when using them, they are less spammable cause more expensive.
on top make it so the Image has only that many shields, as their Counterpart that summons it. making the Images more fragile by nature if you dont leave some sentries at home to reg them up. and if you leave some at home, your mobile sentry army is less powerful. since you build sentries anyway as gasdump with cannons, it fits.
masteries:
group1: zeratul atk Speed. lets be honest, even with cannonspam, army atk Speed is better. why not increase legiondmg and the Duration of legion abilities by 30%. legions are only temporarily, the army is constantly there. hey you actually have a choice now. with this you might even be able to clear the rocks with Archons which mostly Held them back as a viable choice.
group3: Avatar cd reduction, well it finally has a Chance to see the light of day, cause the voidray cost is not stupidly overpriced which would passively buff the 30% costreduction mastery.
Tychus:
well vega. cant you just buff her mc to 6min. isnt 12min a bit over the top? a different Thing was Always the Thing vega should do in my eyes. snare more flying Units. so i can Play a full tank Lineup with vega and tychus. i Always wanted to use blaze against skyterran for the lols or splashdmg rattlesnake. but well it all Ends with vegas snare being not good enough. id rather have that then an mc buff.
nikara: plz give her an autoattack that does like 4dmg/0.25secs with prioritizing the healing beam over the autoattack. idk what you did, but now nikara behaves like mengsk medivacs. healing shortly and if tychus and his Crew moves, she chills and doesnt move at all. ah and btw blizz plz fix medivacs.
Stetmann:
masteries:
group1: let the cost reduce of stetmann affect all Upgrades, like raynor does.
reduce the gascost of the mechacarrierlords by 50. it wouldnt hurt, if their locusceptors could hit air cause they are basically interceptors. Maybe it makes skyzerg viable then.
srsly all of These changes, would make much more sense, then what we got. tychus was mostly good, i have to admit that even though im not a huge fan of playing tychus. but still doesnt Change the fact, that the changes made were mostly good.
Speedrunning arguments are just wrong because those who practice it have optimised a particular comp (nearly always protoss) and a route to do a map the fastest possible. But they are and (thankfully) remain a very tiny minority.
While Abathur is really strong, many “average”-level players still struggle to fast-get ultimates (only need to play a few dozen random queues with Aba players to be convinced). That makes Aba a great late commander but not necessarily a strong early one.
What Abathur needs though is floating toxic nests to target air.