im going to pull an ace but instead of whining about battle cruisers its about recall. obviously removing recall would really hurt prottoss, but at the same time, recall is stupid and this is an rts game and if you think recall is ok your in complete denial. do you know how in tvz and tvt there’s strategies involved and you dont have to fight in one huge death ball? wouldn’t that be a nice thing to add to tvp?
If your going to make a counter argument i dont want to hear “prottoss need recall because prottoss will be too weak” because thats not what my point is, i dont think we should remove recall not because its op, i think we should because it ruins the game
and also give an appropriate buff to prottoss to compensate for loosing recall.
prottoss players be honest… what do you think about recall?
If you don’t like recall,you wouldn’t like its replacement because it should be a big buff to defensive options,buff movements for protoss units,and buffing the scouting tools.
P has rrcall because the army is slow,and really bad at small numbers. It was added because without it,P had to turle all the time.
More buff to protoss units, and the removal of Recall would probably encourage even more deathball styles.
I don’t think that recall has to go away (nor TP btw, however crazy will be becoming Ace). But same than TP (possibly even the current one) and old nydus, it’s still way too effective than it should. it has been sold like allowing small units for tactical teleports, and its area of effet still allows for 90% of a 150 pop army to be recalled. That’s not the surgical precise recall it was intended to be ; but rather a one button press middle finger to players attempting to multifront or to tradebase with a protoss.
I would nerf the area of effect for the nexuses’ recall, while maintaining current one for the MS.
That’s only true for protoss’ most powerful units. Truth is average speed of T1 to T2 (zealots, stalkers, adepts, phoenixes, prism, current VRs) and even some T3 (archons) is actually not that low. They wanted protoss to have more tactical answers against fast multitask harassment (lings runbies, drops), considering the loss of pylons overcharge didn’t allow for armyless defense anymore. But the buff of the stalker actually did a quite good job at that, at least in PvT.
If it was just a matter of being slow, they would’ve given the recall to tank thor heavy mech compositions as well.
If you want Protoss units to move as fast as terran bio and zerg ling bane hydra, then this can work, and I am on board. They would also need a general attack buff as well as the better defensive options.
Not at all actually. Unless You got massive amount of air units. There is no way that You can recall 135 Pop army. Please Provide a replay if You know it better.
Protoss is still the worst basetrade race. Recall is unfair but Lifting building is not ?
If recall really could recall Your Big army then yes i would agree with You. But recall Radius has been reduced and its acceptable small right now. From 6.5 to 2.5 (15% of the previous area). From Your whole army to like a third of Your army if they stand still and clumped
What buff? As about the “tactical answer” are you aware that recalling to a certain base takes longer than warping units directly at the base?
As about the 150 pops, that only if your “pops” are Airtoss…
Currenr Recall at max can teleport 3 Archons and a half.
LUL, they are OK because are not Protoss. Zergs lack mobility especially on creep so a infinite recall with no CD is a must…
Terrans on the other hand have trouble moving left and right their bio-s.h.i.t and should have Teleportation in individual units (meaning no global Recall) with 400-500HP…
MoronTeam logic in action.
Next change: Give TC to …Thor. Because they are so expensive and having BC-like HP, TJ is needed.
I do think it screws with positioning but the way protoss gateway units are rn, it’s kinda necessary. Protoss armies are slow and hard to split up due to how they synergize. Especially in the lategame where you can’t warp in due to max supply. If gateway units were stronger, I wouldnt mind having recall be an upgrade on the fleet beacon.
If you as a terran have problems with recall, what I suggest is drop the main and force a recall. Then, hit the third with some bio. More often than not, that just kills the third.
This is violation of terran-privacy. Please remove that post. You are damaging my preparations for CodeS.
As a kosher-terran that i am, i have to play 10 times better than Stats/Zest just to be on equal footing…
I found and watched the replay I had in mind. You are right, he had rather 100 to 110 pop (40 probes included as I had started killing his ninja base), and recalled about half of his army (so 35 pop). That recall was rather bad executed though, 'cause the chargelots immediately jumped at the surrounding buildings, so he probably could’ve recalled a bit more.
Lifting buildings does not brings an army to defend them though. But yeah, tactical recall area is smaller than what I felt it was. I guess I’m still under the impression of mass recall.
I take back what I said about the area of current recall.
The stalkers were redesigned to have a slower firerate, but more damage per shot. That induced an increase in burst damage, buff which is particularly noticeable in situations where stalkers can shoot only once (for example when blinking under a boosted medivac). It’s also a buff against units with base armor points (specially those with a lot such as BCs or Ultras).
I never said that warpgate wasn’t also particularly useful to defend harass.
You can recall way more than 3 units. I had a feeling that proved exaggerated, but that’s not a reason to do the same in reverse.
Yes, that was the Stalker that was supposed (togather with Recall, Shield Battery and Explode on Contact Disruptors) to compensate the loss of MSC (that itself had a Recall 10 times beter than the current junk) that was able to actively defend a location firing on 4 Pylons causing 2500-3000 damage…
Guess what? Today we have lost that Stalker and have a much weaker Recall and a much worst Disruptor in PvT (though better in PvZ). SB itself was nerffed 4-5 times.
Basically the MoronTeam is pushing Protoss to a Pre-MSC era with each unit nerffed to some extent and …without MSC.
AFAIK current stalker still benefits from an increase in damage/shot compared to pre-redesign one. It was 10+4 dmg during the whole Wol and HotS, compared to the 13+5 current, all theoretical DPS being the same. It was even more at the first update, but as it decreased the time to kill enemy units extremely early in the game (what theoretical unchanged DPS didn’t let foresee), they adjusted it so that the increase in power didn’t translate that early. Yet it’s still more powerful than the original stalker, particularly against medivacs.
As for disruptor, I think that a player here, Eternity, said he didn’t like it, as its damaged relied more upon opponents’ skill or mistakes dodging it (and liked warp prism micro for being exactly the contrary). Still if you’re in situation for that to happen (i. e changing screen to build a supply or to mule), bio units are among the ones whose clumping-up scales the most heavily against splash.
Four units max? Dune 2 is also RTS and had one control unit at once max meanwhile you needed to manually give orders to every single units which was “move”, “attack”, “guard” and as far as I remember “retreat”. This was even more complicated because when you selected unit it wasnt just simple right clicking on the map to move it but you needed to press a button “move” or “M” hotkey on keyboard and then press on the map. xD It was like you had 20+ tanks and you needed to manually order single one to move with left click and “M” button then left click on the map. Damn, good old times lol! However its still very fun for a oldest RTS game ever made. I even replayed this game year ago but it’s very tiring after a while due to controls. Even choosing the construction to build took you to different screen.
