Power creep has left Raynor’s Battlecruisers in a terrible position. In comparison, Han and Horner have perma-nuking capital ships and now Mengsk’s BC’s have amazing support.
BC’s are supposed to be Raynor’s strongest units, but they’re completely outdone by mass infantry/mass viking. They basically just end up floating around, looking pretty.
BC’s cost and build time is just not comparable to raining down marines. They should get that multi-target attack like Hyperion’s or BC’s from Nova’s campaign.
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What do you mean by ‘strongest’? They’re individually his strongest unit by far, unit-for-unit. But you’re not comparing 1 Battlecruiser to 1 Marine, you’re comparing entire builds. And there’s no reason to believe Battlecruisers are supposed to be his most powerful build.
On the contrary, capital ships that can hit air and ground should always be inefficient compared to more specialist and more fragile builds. Put it this way: if mass Battlecruiser was Raynor’s most powerful build, Raynor would be a boring, degenerate commander.
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Way to completely miss the point.
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I’d rather miss a point than go negative on my own thread within 3 minutes.
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H&H and Mengsk both have superior Cattlebruisers, but those are also significantly more expensive. Raynor’s CBs aren’t really bad anyway, they are a tanky but less damaging option.
Bear in mind, Raynor’s Battlecruisers are stupidly tanky; even against the other BCs they still look decent, especially given their comparative cost. They get the same hp increase as any other Raynor unit with armour upgrades, plus they get the damage taken reduction if healed by a medic.
So a 700 hp, 6 armour unit that takes 20% less damage. Pretty darn good.
I tend to only use a couple in front of the Bio when needed, to absorb damage. As I find they make a better support than anything.
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Raynor’s bcs are stronger than you think, the other commanders have to pay a lot more gas and takes longer to mass compared to Raynor. And Raynor has medics that can patch them up for free(H&H and Mengsk needs scv), it has a lot of sinergy with bio ball, good for transition.
Like, if you want extra dps for your bio ball, you have either banshees or bcs to cover the damage that your marines are missing since they tend to surround with a bunch of marines still trying to find a place to shoot…if you aren’t stutter stepping that is.
Han and Horner BCs have life regen though? And mengsk’s marines are his scvs. They will heal the BCs much faster than raynor medics, even if it costs a bit of gas. Also, since both HH and mengsk BCs have a lot of hp each, they’re less likely to lose them than raynor, meaning repair and regen is more valuable/usable.
Significant other bonuses mean each BC gives all merc units +5% attack speed at level 15 and a decent Mira army means BCs get more health. Seems like a decent synergy.
Mengsk’s BCs give his bio +1 range. Again, decent synergy.
Raynor’s BCs on the other hand don’t give the bonuses, they’re just tanky for their cost. The only real bonus here is maybe the medic damage reduction with healing?
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Raynor BCs should provide Detector and perhaps have an aura for +1 attack range to nearby friendly units.
Yeah, they have dmg reduction with medic healing, health boost with armor upgrades and reduced gas cost.
Maybe bcs should get a 10, 15% attack speed for ground forces? In order to reward the tech cost? Can’t see them to become Karax rival, just a answer to ground comp without going static or mine cheese.
Raynor already has one of the best detectors. The Hyperion gives a damage bonus aura too. BCs are fine.
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Here is the three BCs broken down, compared to their mineral/vespene cost and their supply cost:
This is with Raynor!BC and Sovereign having +3/+3, all applicable upgrades, and Raynor has his rank 15 attack speed increase. All calculations are stat divided by cost/supply (e.g. Raynor!BC hp versus supply is 700 ÷ 6). All numbers rounded to the nearest hundredth, where applicable.
- Augustgrad’s dps is trash compared to cost or supply
- Sovereign dps is beaten soundly in cost vs Raynor!BC
- Sovereign does well compared to supply, but ATX is beaten by Raynor!BC ATS without mech attack+ mastery. Mini Yamato wins out supply wise if we ignore overkill.
- With +30% mech attack speed, Raynor!BC crushes the competition.
Looking at HP, Raynor!BCs are quite nice for cost, matching a rank 3 Augustgrad. Sovereign loses quite badly for hp/cost.
Comparing hp/supply either Sovereign or R3!Augustgrad win depending on mastery allocation for Significant Other:
- It will take 59 Han supply at 0 mastery to roughly match a Raynor!BC, based on hp/supply.
- It will take 86 Han supply at 30 mastery to roughly match an R3!Augustgrad, based on hp/supply. At 0 mastery, Sovereign cannot match an R3!Augustgrad.
TLDR:
- Raynor!BCs look like trash if you directly compare stats, but if we include cost or supply suddenly they are actually quite competitive.
- Augustgrads are pretty terrible as a dps unit compared to the other two. Though they do have the best Yamato and an attack range aura.
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This kinda reinforces the idea that Raynor’s BCs are all around decent and cost-effective while Mengsk’s are meant to be support units. H&H Cattlebruisers are the ultimate flying fortress.
Edit: Thanks for the good work, brother, very informative.
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You should probably compare gas cost only, instead of mineral+gas.
Mineral is a dump for all 3 commanders, while H&H and Mengsk’s BCs have obscenely high gas costs. Especially Mengsk is weird like that, his BC costs 400/900.
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Where did you get this idea? Not every CO has a single “strongest” unit. That would make Starcraft incredibly boring. Swann’s Thors are outclassed by his Goliaths, Han and horner’s Battlecruisers are a borderline waste supply, Reapers and Ravens have always been where that CO is at.
Mass Carrier for Fenix is slow and doesn’t play to his awesome early game at all.
The only legit “ultimate unit” that any CO really has is Kerrigan’s ultralisks, and guess what? They can’t hit air. They’re just a big punching bag that absorbs damage so Kerrigan can do the real work.
Battlecruisers can work the same way if you mix them in with Bio. But you already have the Hyperion itself for that so why bother?
TLDR: Battlecruisers have always been bad. Power creep has nothing to do with it.
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If we compare gas only; Raynor!BC wins soundly on all fronts, though Sovereign beats Augustgrad for both hp and dps as well.
Edit: If there’s interest, I can throw that one up as well.
Brother, do it. It is so rare to learn something interesting on the forums.
Thanks for the kind words BartFitz. Here’s the breakdown just looking at vespene:
Same setup as before; +3/+3, all upgrades, Raynor lvl 15. Calculated as stat ÷ vespene.
Raynor!BCs just look godly compared to the other two when only comparing vespene cost. There’s no competition.
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It may be worth mentioning that raynor has split upgrades, while HH and mengsk have universal upgrades. Though his resource cost reduction can make up for it somewhat.
Those are things raynor himself gives, not his bio. The BCs don’t get inherently stronger if you have bio under them or vice versa (besides the aforementioned medic heal).
And because raynor has split upgrades, if you want to have a decent bio into BC mid-game transition, you need a lot of gas and maybe even 3 armories to get all the benefits raynor has to offer BCs, a transition that is so much easier as HH and mengsk.
Out of morbid curiosity, could you post a table comparing raynor banshees to raynor BCs?