Just delete them from the game already; they do absolutely nothing. Just replace the raven with an observer ripoff and be done with it.
2 Likes
Have you not seen any pro-level PvT or TvT? Ravens are insanely crucial for fights. TvT games especially basically revolve around ravens to lock down tanks and even BCs in the late game.
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Ravens are absolute garbage in lategame, they are good only for all ins. Hellbats i don’t know why hellbats, they are useless for all ins, because zerg holds everything with queens, otherwise they are good to include with your mech army.
3 Likes
For their cost hellbats are the tankiest unit in the terran arsenal and they don’t have an armored tag. They murder zerglings and zealots, and they clear out broodlings/swarm locusts.
Raven AAM is really good with marines, BCs and libs. Interference matrix is really good in PvT and TvT, and autoturret harassment is a pain to deal with, especially for zerg.
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Raven is useless on new patch you get 2 casts with full energy and still costs the same gas
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in PvT they get wrecked by most comps because archons, colossi, disruptors, and even storm just melts them. The unit has so many counters in this matchup. As mentioned all over this forum, Hellbats need either their biotag removed and replace with medivac passive heal OR remove light tag. Further testing would help see which is the better way to go.
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Raven harass is the dumbest and most expensive harass you can do. 200 gas at risk of dying to anything that shoots up and placing auto turret is 2 range, so they will get killed by queens or stalkers quite easily. Hellbats are only really good for all-ins and killing locusts.
6 Likes
Come on, man. Dual and I have definitely had out differences, but you’re trying to make the case that Ravens are any good in TVZ? Don’t be flat out delisional. The Raven is far from useless, but it’s by far the worst caster in the game.
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That needs to be done 100%
Removing Bio-tag is the best way to go from actual testing. The survival against Archons is greatly increased which allows you to trade with them.
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Outside of turrets raven is only a support caster, which means they can only be as good as the units they are supporting.
maybe on pro level, thats about how much? 0.1% of the playerbase?
for the rest 200 gas per unit being a liability to be microed. And sometimes really useless.
I can never ever use them for scouting or planting turrets infront of my army (let alone because of their short duratoin for planning ahead is not possible) They will simply get sniped (or at least the risk is quite high). Scans are the only way for that.
(at least the old one had a Oh-Sh1t-button: Pdd~point defense drone, which was somewhat useful against anything but marines~)
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apparently you don’t watch the game as both units are not useless.
Im happy with how Hellbats are, they get the blue flame buff too. Raven with nerfed IM though makes the unit a bit crappy, faster speed but not enough to make this unit feel good.
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Raven is too weak. The speed buff made it not a liability at least. But when you compare it to the science vessel? yeah…
Hellbats and hellions aren’t that bad. Its just when you compare it to how relatively good vultures were it makes them look like complete garbage. Vulture: 75 vs 100 min. Fastest unit in the game with speed upgrade. !! Could fire while moving with almost no delay !! The only real thing hellbats have going for them is splash but … mines!
They each had three spider mines which gave you map control, detect and kill DTs, and almost ensured they paid for themselves and then some. Honestly, vultures were like buying three mines for 75 min and getting a fast harass unit for free lol.
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So we agree, Raven is a support caster, while Infestors are a one man army? Sounds about right.
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Have you even tried using libs+anti-armor missile on corruptor/broodlords?
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Have not needed to, libs are enough on their own to shred through most zerg units.
If they want to keep the energy lower on raven they should give it more defense or a protos style over shield for early game because you don’t have enough energy to really do anything against early pushes at least that would keep it alive
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As much as I love Vultures, they depended heavily on the limitations of Brood War’s pathing to be effective.
Their missile tends to overkill a lot, and units clump too much in SC2 engine for Vultures to pick off edge units in a mobile run-by like they did in Brood War. Even if you recreate the Vulture’s movement, large firing arc, and drift after firing; the Vulture still wouldn’t perform as well.
The loss of full damage to shields also hurts Vultures a lot in TvP, and Vultures are not fast enough to kite Chargelots during charge (so you have to stay out of 4 range at all costs).
Spider Mines will also get automatically killed by anything that can see them in the SC2 engine. This is why all SC2 variants of the Spider Mine become invulnerable while they un-burrow. They would never reach their target without that feature.
In order to really make Vultures work in SC2, you would have to buff them quite a bit. Even the SC2 campaign/co-op Vulture’s increased damage, projectile speed, and range left it a lack-luster unit; albeit it did not have the instant (0 damage point) attack of Brood War Vultures.
Even if Vultures were added, I still wouldn’t want Hellbats/Hellions to be removed. Mech cannot rely on bad pathing to help keep melee units from getting too close like in Brood War, so having a meat-shield with a flamethrower for light units and a transformation for harassment is extremely helpful. Being able to use that same unit to scout, harass, deny creep, and quickly reinforce is also extremely useful.
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No doubt, in perfect scenarios that’s an awesome combo. Thing is, that never works. You get that close to a Zerg air ball and you get fungal para bomb until your opponent’s are killing units you made in other games.
Raven is not useless, but as the most expensive, hardest to make caster (temllar comes from one of 20 gated and Zerg… well), it’s just immensely underwhelming.
I honestly can’t imagine why I have to explain this to someone.