Ramsey theory - a crash course on garbo forum "arguments"

Average win-rates / games played per race per league:
https://burnysc2.github.io/MMR-Ranges/

  • Zergs have consistently lower win-rates in GM/Masters across the planet & play the fewest games in those leagues as well (a sign that zerg players aren’t as active as P/T).

Elo analysis of pro scene:
https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/sc2/t/ramsey-theory-a-crash-course-on-garbo-forum-arguments/19315/65

  • This computes the expected win-rate between for PvZ and ZvP given equal skill and finds it matches the actual ladder data.

Ladder rankings:
https://www.rankedftw.com/stats/races/1v1/#v=2&r=-2&l=6

  • Zerg representation in GM/Master/Diamond/etc is highly correlated with Protoss. Zergs are being funnelled from higher leagues to lower leagues and the reverse is true for Protoss.

  • Zerg is the least common race in GM and Protoss the most, Zerg is the least common race in Masters and Protoss is quickly overtaking Terran’s lead in Masters.

4 Likes

Need a GSL win. 20 C

1 Like

Playing less=less practice=being worse=less wr, makes sense.

Switching races to Protoss which explains not just the number of games played but also the inflation of Protoss representation on the ladder.

So the amount of P is not balance related and more population related.

1 Like

Population and win-rates are a product of the same cause.

2 Likes

damn patchzergs changing the race at the monent their broken race get a fix :rofl:

1 Like

It’s not Zerg’s win-rates that are inflated and it’s not Zerg’s representation that is inflated. Your claims are wildly contradictory to reality.

1 Like

Basketball is a symmetrical game, nothing to balance there.

1 Like

Out of cheese (that is bad for the game-design), the Void is still the same garbage in mid-late-game.
They buffed the less relevant aspects of the unit and ignored the real problems with Void.

Either is lying. Or a diversity grad no doubt…

There is balancing involved just not the way you think. The game is balanced with rules and the rules are changed to create the desired balance.

For example the game has been balanced by virtue of rule change to favor perimeter players. Small ball is king because the game was balanced that way.

In any case you missed the premises of the analogy

The analogy is changing features of the game based on the performance of a statistically insignificant elite

1 Like

As long as the rules apply equally (they do), that game will forever be balanced no matter what rules one invents.

That can be achieved by (an random example) redesigning the Carrier that with the current level of micro has 70% of the DPS, and with a micro capable from 6800-7400MMR players do 150% damage of the current Carrier.
Also, nerff protoss cheese but increase the reliability and scaleability of all units. Less wins in 1v1 (Ladder) but more wins in long-macro games and BO(X)…
Protoss reliance (due to design) in cheese has a big toll in BOX which are the way Tournaments are played.

Zalphabet finally say a truth protons r op but zergs need nerfs 2

The winrates are interesting. Zerg is slightly lower but ladder is designed to be 50% so I think this is a lot more significant than it looks. The changes in masters/GM is still the biggest indicator to me but the issue is I don’t know what the end goal is. You’re never going to get balanced representation in every league because different races are popular at different levels.

I’d like to see how the average mmr for each race has changed over the last few patches. I think you would see some major swings between Protoss and Zerg.

Exactly. If you adjust for GM representation it’s roughly 6%.

Rule changes lead to advantages and disadvantages for different types of players and styles. This is a change in the balance of the game. Small ball teams, perimeter players, shooters, and off ball movement have inherent advantages compared to big lineup teams, post players, and isolation play…and these are due to rule changes - rules “buffed” perimeter players, small ball, etc. and nerfed post play etc

You’re still missing the essence of what I was saying anyway - just because a bunch of outliers that, as a sample size, are statistically insignificant compared to the general population, exists, doesnt mean you change the features of the game based on them. while ignoring the rest of the population.

They’re the exception that proves the rule.

1 Like

For small league. Like gm. It will fluctuate up and down. But average can be balanced… for bigger leagues it should be balanced and not fluctuating…

1 Like

Yeah but what percentages are considered balanced? Protoss took significant leads in masters and GM but Zerg is still the most represented in diamond even after Protoss closed the gap a bit. 33% in each league is impossible so I really don’t know what balanced would look like.