The queen is turning out to be one of the best all-round units in SC2 due to its completely overpowered MOBA hero type design, and the unit is basically free at a mere 150 minerals and 0 gas.
Unfortunately, this unit has turned SC2 upside down and we are seeing many games where zerg just masses this free unit instead of building actual combat units.
The utility of the Queen is currently too much, it has inject, creep tumor and transfuse (this must be removed from the game completely). AA, ground attack, range and excessive HP.
After reading the forums looking for good nerf solutions without breaking this unit, the users on these forums have come up with the following suggestions:
Transfuse being a Hive level upgrade
Cost: 125 minerals, 25 gas.
AA: Remove AA so that queens cannot hit up (not the best idea since they really do need early game AA defense).
HP Nerfed by half: This is a good one but not enough to actually make a big difference on its own.
One queen per hatchery: Also fixes the problem of mass queens, however this isn’t a very SC2 like change
Queens built from spawning pool: This is also a good change that would fix the speed in which zergs can mass queens.
I really believe the devs need to take a good long hard look at this game breaking unit and suppose one of the fixes above.
If not, then both terran and zerg should have an equally accessible hero unit that can be massed for 150 minerals to counteract this unit to truly turn this game into a MOBA.
Yeah I think the queen could use a bit of a nerf too, especially for early game aggression.
Maybe… Hmmm. It can’t transfuse off of creep? That would keep it at home as a support unit until you reach Lair when overlords can poop creep, or you can build a nydus.
If you wanna nerf queen, cool; go for it. But Zerg needs a compensary redesign to give it a viable defensive t1 unit with anit-air. Queen is literally the only option pre-lair.
Zerg dies to every early pressure with this change. Queen’s sustain is the only thing it has going for it. Its dps is so bad 5 queens struggle to kill 1 marine if it has a medivac healing it.
Forcing Zerg to pick between the 100% required zergling speed and having any larva/defensive options. Queen can’t require gas.
You’re better off just deleting Zerg. No aa pre lair so Zerg would just die to any air harass. If you rush to lair to get laughs hydralisks…the worst anti-air in the game…you have no econ to build enough to defend anyway.
Meaning it’d be impossible for Zerg to spread creep. That would be fine if we change it to be like BW: where zerg units get their full speed everywhere and creep gives no bonuses. I’d strongly prefer that actually; so as long as those two come in a package this is fine. Otherwise, just delete the race as it’d be unplayable; Zerg is completely dependent on creep bonuses to engage armies head to head.
Again, Zerg has no t1 defensive options besides the queen. Nuking queen production this hard just makes it so Zerg dies immediately to air pressure. You can’t effectively delete the queen from the game without giving Zerg something to survive to Lair. Playing Zerg is already a game of getting punched in the face for 10 minutes and hoping the one punch you get to throw back works. These changes would just make it so playing Zerg is hoping your opponent doesn’t punch you for 10 minutes at all; which doesn’t happen.
No one does the ovi creep highway. It comes out too late to work; which is why, pre-patch, Zerg pros would just walk their queens across the map. If creep walk was viable it would have been the meta already because coming out of it with lair tech would be better than “this works or I die on hatchery tech.” But it has a 0% success rate at the pro level, so no one does it.
Nydus is also really easy to deny if you don’t use F2; which is why it would lose all viability at the highest level if queens can’t heal it on unload.
How is queen OP exactly? Because top tier zergs don’t instantly die to harass? It’s not like the queen stops drone losses, Zerg still regularly lose several workers WITH the queen as is to early harass. You literally have to give Zerg something if you nuke the queen or it’s impossible to play.
The Protoss equivalent would be locking everything but zealots behind Twilight Counsil. Have fun holding ling/bane rush or 3 rax.
Talking to you is talking to a brick wall, so I’m just gonna keep reposting this til you stop replying to me…
“You can have good units…”
“Sweet, love that.”
“…but you can’t make them in your opponent’s base.”
“$%&* you, I’d rather die and never win a tournament again.”
so queen is not a moba unit for me because it is too clunky. When I look at the current moba I don’t see a stone rolling slowly across the map.
Yes queen brings a lot of use, but it limits itself.
Queen has gta/ gtg… so do other units.
Queen is tanky, but dps is low (especially against ground).
Queen can inject. first that is zerg macro mechanics. second the inject-queen are rarely used for other things like creep spreed.
As I said, queens are also extremely clunky! even on creep.
Maybe you can outsource the creep spreed mechanic? to overlord?
not another upgrade and then Hive again.
not necessarily, if you see queen as a counter to air-harass. Transfuse on lair. maybe it could work. zerg might have to build units earlier.
larva intensive. possibly too larva intensive. but i don’t want to eliminate it right away.
the idea gas cost for queen, but why also minerals?
~
why half the HP?
it just gets more complex. more special rules.
the only problem i see here is that pool is needed for speed upgrade. and zerg gets problems at the beginning - with ecco or def units (ling).
believe 2022 Global StarCraft II League Season 1 we have already seen it. Rogue vs Zoun.
is a good point. In the past, I often heard the statement: compensation.
But it depends on the nerf. If the nerf weakens it is ok. If the nerf is too hard, you have to talk about compensation.
True. But it did 0 dmg. OK i guess it did dmg but the damage it did was in zoun building defense while with quick lair rogue went for quick mutas. And while zoun went ground and heavy on defense He Got killed easily by mutas.
You mean Game 1? That wasn’t a ovi creep highway build:
The creep highway build hits at 5:30-5:45 depending on the map; this hit at the 7 minute mark. The lair also starts at 4 minutes, no later; usually sooner. Rogue started his at 4:30.
Rogue used tumors to get creep to about 3/4 of the way to the protoss’ 3rd then used ovis there to make creep so the queens could transfuse; the creep highway build uses ovis the whole way due to the earlier timing (queens wouldn’t have energy to transfuse more than once).
The push failed (as I said it usually does). Rogue did go on to win the game, but that’s because he didn’t do the creep highway; he did a much later timing attack that I don’t think we have a proper name for.
This is the silliest thing I have ever read. You clearly don’t understand zerg, as they have ZERO AA outside of queens until lair tech.
All it takes is two oracles or 1 battlecruiser or 1 banshee to crush a zerg, even if they have a queen at each base. One queen can’t beat an oracle/banshee/bc 1v1, so you have to scout the attack, and then mass queens defensively, because hydras will never come out in time.
They do minimal dps (less than a marine), you are just bad if you are losing air units to queens.
That being said, if you want to move hydras to hatch tech and make queens not do AA anymore, that would be fine.
Someone’s never heard of the German Taxi.
EU pro’s have been carrying queens since even before the patch. It’ll be fine.
The Koreans are the one’s who walked the queens across a dry map.
does the OP know queens were having their AA range nerfed and buffed for a while because it’s the best defense we have against early air… oh wait… no they’re brainless.
Not really, I just expect more from the game than one race countering everything with just queens and lings.
Also using queens as offensive units as people are doing now days is not what the game should be like. They are a defensive hero unit that is currently free of charge at 150 minerals which means nothing for zerg and can be massed to counter T2 and T3 units.
There is a reason why reynor, serral etc are competing and beating the koreans, and thats because the race is completely broken due to this unit.
Lets see if the next patch fixes anything in this game.
The Marine has a place in the game and has been balanced since SC2’s conception.
The queen on the other hand, not so much. The unit needs to be absolutely changed otherwise SC2 may as well live up to its name. Starcraft for 2 races.
