Put the Marauder attack back to 2x instead of 1

General Discussion
110

While technically true, if you’re kiting, you are, by definition, stopping to attack. Every time you stop, the ultra gets much closer, and even with the speed nerf, off creep, you’re not actually outpacing the ultra, you’re only keeping pace with it (if you’re running away and stimmed) until they’re on top of you. This also doesn’t consider the presence of zerglings which are inherently faster units. In practice, it’s far harder to pull off than in a vacuum.

While a strange comparison for me to make, the comparison was 0/0 immortals vs 3/3 ultras, which was the worst case scenario for a protoss player (generally this would basically only be for players who rush carrier tech and forego ground upgrades).

Also, your math is wrong, specifically the way the armour is calculated. Remember, armour applies twice, so it would actually look like this at 3/3 vs 3/3:

65 (total damage vs armoured units) -(7 (armour) x2 (applied twice, because 2 attacks)) = 51.

Also, how are you doing your percentages - is there something I’m missing here? Because 54/65 is .83, or about 17%.

Because:

A) Upgrade differences between bio and mech mean you’re spending several minutes on just catching up on upgrades alone. Vehicle armour, for example takes 160 seconds for +1, 190 seconds for +2, and 220 seconds for +3, making a combined total of 570 seconds, or roughly 9 and a half minutes. Vehicle weapons aren’t quite as much, but the total upgrade time of that is just under 7 minutes.

B) Production time - Terran production isn’t front-loaded like warpgate, so you can’t drop 20+ of them instantly, and we don’t get chronoboost to speed up production of our longer units. Units like Tanks take 32 seconds per tank, and can’t be reactored. Thors take 43 seconds to produce, while BCs take 64 seconds to produce. A carrier with chronoboost takes about 43 seconds last I recall. I’d have to double check the math again though.

C) Production costs - Zerg gets to mass produce every unit they have in an instant, so you also have to keep producing units to prevent yourself from dying, rather than just hard tech-switching. Each production costs a not insignificant amount of gas and minerals, and you’re generally limited on bases, since it’s extremely hard to expand as Terran beyond your initial “quadrant” - if you’ve ever heard casters talk about how terran is constantly “stuck in their quadrant” this is what they mean - taking bases further and further away from your main is absurdly difficult (which is why planetaries exist in the first place).

Anyway, this results in an inordinate amount of time in which the Terran is spending significant chunks of money on units they don’t want, while trying to get out production for units that they do want, to then produce units that both produce slower than the units they’re already producing, and are at an upgrade deficit for multiple minutes at a time.

TLDR: Terran’s capability of tech-switching is by far the weakest and longest of the three races by a long way.

It’s rarely that simple in a game though, especially given how quickly ultras can both be made and how the tech can come out with very little notice. While it’s not three minutes, as Dank sarcastically suggested earlier, it’s still very quick - as I mentioned previously it’s not uncommon to have hive started by 7:30, which is extremely fast.

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111

Keep in mind that MMM is generally supported by other units to remain effective: Ghosts, Vikings, Liberators, Tanks (if the enemy composition allows it, otherwise the Tanks are actually a liability), Widow Mines, etc. That is the case in all three match-ups.

Protoss continues to use Gateway units throughout the game, and Zerg continues to use Zerglings and sometimes Banelings throughout the game. Those are their equivalents to Terran continuing to use Bio.

That is because Roaches are supply inefficient. Roaches are very cheap, but their supply cost keeps them in check. Supply-efficient Roaches would either have to be much stronger, or they would cost around 1.5 supply or so.

Zerg’s other Hatchery units (Zerglings, Banelings, and even Queens) continue to be made in the late game, whether that is for defense and macro, to counter light units like Marines, for harassment, or for other reasons. The Roach is the only Zerg unit you can even argue Zerg needs to transition out of.

Meanwhile, Terran Bio similarly needs to transition out of Reapers, Hellions, and Banshees after the early game. These units just aren’t effective enough in combat or as harassment for a Bio player to justify making them; and there are other problems with mixing them into Bio.

2 Likes
112

Kids named Swarmhost and Raven:

(Also the Infestor is a shell of its former self)

Tbf, even if OP’s requested changes went through, Marauders would still be a mainstay of TvZ simply due to being good enough vs Banelings (in the not immediately dying department) to be worth making.

113

Mmmm… that’s honestly debatable; perhaps in lower tiers of play, and quite literally only for absorbing damage, but higher tiers would see them drop off completely.

1 Like
114

Terran would just opt for more Tanks or Widow Mines to lower the Baneling count. I don’t see a reason to make an anti-armor unit that cannot even do that job.

Either way, doubling the effect of armor on an anti-armor unit is a bad idea. If Marauders needed a nerf, attack speed or damage is the way to go; and if the concern is only the early-game, then a late-game upgrade could be implemented to restore those stats.

1 Like
115

Thank God he is not on Balance Concil! haha! Jesus!