From the beginning there was the mothership core and nexus cannon, later became MSC and Pylon Cannon, afterwards became Shield battery, and now there’s a new shield battery ability…
My question is, why is Blizzard under the impression that any of the above is needed?!
Most Protoss wall off at natural, others use sentry vs Zerg ramp. Between cannons and tactical retreat, what gap exists where they feel that shield batteries are needed??
Just because there’s a wall doesn’t mean you’re protected. What happens when the zealot or adept in the wall dies and 20 zerglings flood your base and kills the only pylon powering your gateways. Its about actually being able to move out and leave some gateway units behind while having a chance at defending counterattacks. Without the MSC and associated abilities, protoss defense is woefully inadequate.
Because back in WoL, Protoss constantly died to cheese, and as cheeses got more refined and new units that could be used aggressively for Terran/Zerg, they realized that Protoss needed new tools for defense.
PvP in WoL was 4-gate/2-gate robo into chrono immortals or die for a reason. Expanding was pretty much a death sentence.
If not for the MSC in HoTS, and Batteries in LoTV, Protoss would still be required to forge expand in PvZ, because any other build dies to a ling rush. Even with batteries, Ling floods are still extremely dangerous in PvZ, and often take games even in pro play.
because toss needs a lot of defence, read the balance patch note for battery overcharge, the dev wrote a note there
what is said was that protoss cant defend expansions as good as other races so it needed a defencive structure and ability that didnt cost protoss much
which battery overcharge was then released
i think it was a very balanced thing to do, i date u play toss and not use shield batteries with 5 expansions
make gateway units cost 1.5 supply and you can probably take away all the band-aid fixes they always throw at protoss. I can tell you Protoss players don’t like all these gimmicks either.
Protoss’ fundamentally issue since WoL if not BW is that there are just so few units to use.
I would like to see the Supply-drop on Void-Tempest rather than on GW armies (before hiting 200/200 the supply-cost is irrelevant). Having 1.5 supply Zealots won’t save us from early-game pressure.
The idea of having a fractional supply for Protoss is a very interesting one, it would increase the granularity and allow some fine-tuning.
Make the Protoss Photon Cannon convertible into a shield battery instead. Kind of like the Command Center into a PF or into an OB.
After the photon cannon, a proper amount of gas will convert it into the shield battery. This way protoss cannot abuse cannons and shield batteries, it will balance out the investment.
Requirement: Forge
Upgrade Cost: 50 Gas
Pre-Requisite: Photon Cannon is built, selectable and holds this option.
Conversion time: 20 Seconds (a very forgiving build time, enough time after scouting the enemy).
This way, protoss cannot just warp in a shield battery. As a result they cannot just warp in cannons and batteries simultaneously.
Balance requires a trade off of one or the other. Protoss survives any counter attack via recall, and the ability to warp in a multitude of units if they are out of position.
You already have recall.
you already have warp in.
You now must go through the tree of cannon, into the battery from the cannon.
It will only be 50 gas. and 20 seconds conversion time.
Protoss units already have shielding. Therefore gas is required for a building to heal the shielding.
Terran builds bunkers but it needs to be manned, the turrets only shoot at air, and Zerg requires drones to build the spores and spines.
Protoss needs a pre-requisite before the shield battery, and must trade off something because it heals the shielding of units. The overcharge is then justified due to the pre-requisite.
So the choice is now to damage the enemy, by defending with a cannon, or to heal your units while they are being damaged.
So for example, the shield battery would buy time for protoss units to recall home, or warp-in. A much more balanced scenario if a base is attacked/probes are being hit.
As the new battery seems to do a great job in helping protoss defending a lot types of early aggression and in aligmend to the new changes to skytoss they may after all consider making forge require a gateway so they can remove one of the most annoying thing in the game.
“Oh no, I can’t kill the Protoss early. Wtf is the dev doing?”
Is the summary of this post.
lmfao are you really this daft? or just this bad? id win all my TvPs if they removed shield battery from the game. dont be silly.
LOL, the most idiotic proposal today.
This scumbag simply propose to turn SB from a 100 mineral unit into a …150 Mineral 50 Gas unit…
How convenient…
This specimen is a …Gold Terran.
Free advice: First learn the names of the units and next repeat 4 times before sleep the tech-tree of each race…
L2P Noob, next theorycraft.
The requirement is first the Cannon, then you only spend 50 gas, and only 50 gas just to get it, no more minerals to get it, because you already paid to place the building on the ground.
I only wrote this: Then with proper gas, it can be converted in 20 seconds into a battery. Opposed to the 29 seconds it takes to warp it in.
Sure I’m gold, but the suggestions I make are not as drastic as the higher levels who sometimes make suggestions that only work for their play styles.
What if you don’t have minerals? And you want to protect your probes, but you banked up on gas? because the game worked in a way where you are lost on minerals?
Exactly, the mindset I provide accounts for every situation. And every skill level. That is how balance suggestions are made.
Yes, but will we be reinbursed the 150 Mineral that a Cannon costs?
Basically you are asking to transform a Cannon (that has costed 150 Minerals) to a SB by adding 50 Gas.
So, SB will cost 150 Minerals and 50 Gas…
No reimbursement because you paid the minerals to place the building on the ground. I added more info on my previous reply to you, it factors in a scenario that helps.
There are times when Protoss wish they had a shield battery instead of cannons, so here they have the opportunity to convert their own building without wasting space. This way they don’t have to drop another pylon if the radius is full. I am fully aware of the game mechanics.
I only need to work on my macro and that is it. But Its my micro that helps me a lot.
Overall the perks of this is 9 second less build time, and only Gas conversion. But no reimbursement. Once it becomes a battery there is no going back.
So you are asking a structure that now costs 100 minerals to go 150 minerals and …50 Gas?
Are you aware that Protoss has no gas to spare?
That proposal would be balanced only if the 150/50 SB would be an Permanent Overcharged SB.
I doubt that any P/T/Z would agree.
Its 150 because your initial option was to defend via damage by cannon. Now its 50 gas because you are defending via energy.
Stop changing my words. The Battery upgrades the cannon into a shield battery. It is better to have a shield battery than a cannon.
When was the last time you had cannons out and your mineral line didn’t die?
Now when was the last time you had batteries out and your mineral line died quickly?
Exactly. I am fully aware of both sides. Ad hominem me, or change my words.
How bad is 50 gas? Does not Protoss have the power to warp in quickly? And recall?
Having a building that heals requires a pre-requisite in the like manner that the CC is required to become a planetary fortress in order to damage the enemy.
In the like manner that the hatchery must upgrade to lair, or lair to hive to unlock greater things.
Terran has to choose between economy or defense/damage.
Zerg has to sacrifice a drone to get defense.
What does the protoss sacrifice to get a shield battery, that heals units?
I am not changing anything. You are asking a structure that costs 100 mineral to be built for 150 Mineral and 50 Gas.
No. Just learn to deal with it (it is a stationary structure after all) just like us deal with your Medevac and Zerg’s Queens that are mobile.
I am not the one who has a problem with it. I didn’t say it was OP. I am making a suggestion based on the complaints on the forums and seeing what all sides think, not just you or me.
Right now we are two of many people, we will wait* to see what they think. So let us wait because soon people will be factoring in scenarios that vary. Other than the ones that happen in their favor.
You are refering to the OP? A clueless noob that has no sense of what happened those last 3-4 years? Don’t waste your time with such plankton, it’s useless and a waste.
I didn’t say that it was OP in that it was overpowered.
If you want to summarize my suggestion, just make the Battery have an extra step and a different resource requirement to get it, but also trading off from a cannon.
I’m telling you this will give Protoss a lot of flexibility. You don’t have to drop another 100, you can just get the gas, and if you want to expand, you have 100 minerals saved to get another nexus.