I’m just a guy who watches competitive starcraft 2 matches all the time, but I thought to share my opinion on this issue with observational knowledge of the game being played at the highest level. If I had to consider who is truly the best protoss of all time, it would be Stats, because I noticed when protoss lose, it’s because they were impatient and Stats is the most patient protoss player, being known as the Shield of Aiur for playing defensively. This would explain why Parting’s victories, despite being the Spear of Aiur, are 50/50 nowadays, despite his unparalleled micro that rivals Maru’s. Warpgates, despite being able to almost instantly deploy gateway units near a plyon or planted warp prism, are actually mathematically more inefficient to produce units in the long-term. Professional protoss players would do all-ins and the chance of it working is 50/50, but it happens more often than turtling, because late game requires perfect play due to protoss units not really being specialized(Example: Stalker) and being too specialized(Example: Immortal). The most perfect protoss gameplay I’ve ever witnessed was from Stats during the last Stay at home-home story cup. It was jaw-dropping flawless that he was able to win without struggling like the average protoss player does(at least from the competitive scene). Protoss can never recover health and their plasma shields only regenerate after 10 seconds out of combat, this makes their health SITUATIONAL rather than ADAPTABLE like the other races. Sure they have them fancy shield batteries but that’s limited by positioning, another reason why they’re forced to cheese.
Truly the best terran in the world is Byun, the guy overwhelmed Maru in his prime when his wrists weren’t in as much pain as today, but his wrists being painful to begin with just proves Terran at the greatest level play is the most hard-working race. The only buffs they should receive are Quality of Life ones.
The race that is truly OP is the zerg. I noticed at the top level of play, they always have 2000+ resources floating around and can easily replace their losses. The best are the most patient ones that make the most efficient trades, but even then, they still have 2000+ resources floating around while maxed out. The only nerf they need is the removal of the Queen’s Spawn Larvae and making Lair produce up to 4 larvae instead of 3 and Hive to 6, so they have something to spend the excess resources if they want to maximize production.
Before this thread gets flooded with the whiners, I just want to say that this game is relatively balanced as is. There are some imbalances at certain stages of the game depending on the matchup, but overall, the game is in a fair spot. Some things I’m going to note before the nut cases hop on here:
GM ladder is NOT representative of the top skill level of SC2. Take the group of players above 6k MMR. That’s closer to the real top level of SC2. GM ladder became a complete joke I think even before 2021 due to how low the MMR standards have gotten across the board for ranks.
GM ladder is riddled with smurfs/alt accounts - and no, not all of them are barcodes.
I have yet to see any genuine statistical analysis to support Protoss being as OP as some people scream it is. While there are some indications that some of the recent buffs need to be scaled back a little, people have clearly been able to make do overall.
People are jealous of Protoss’ ability to do weird things - despite the fact that Zerg can easily scout it and Terran is practically built to hold all of Protoss 2 base aggression. This is probably because Zerg feels like they are doing the same thing every game, and Terran feels like they HAVE to do this or that to win. Meanwhile the truth is Protoss HAS to do these weird things to win against the other two races. That’s why when Protoss pulls a win with some tactic that feels underhanded, the other two races get angry.
Protoss was not buffed skyhigh - the recent buffs I can think of are shield battery overcharge, void ray changes, high templar +1 feedback range, and tempest upgrade. Yet what people complain about the most are disruptors, high templar (storm), chrono boost, and recall (nerfed into the ground mind you). Anyone who complains about Protoss getting massive amounts of buffs is completely out of their minds.
There is some deep truths in both of your posts. I’ve always been a fan of Stats’ macrogames. When he was at his very peak he was truly unparalleled in that area. Also always have been a big fan of sOs ad ClassiC: they weren’t as good in macro as Stats or in micro as Parting, but their game decisions were are top notch every time. It’s like their brain works different and have a more artistic approach on the game instead of following the meta.
I can agree on zerg still being the strongest range at the very top level, but only by a small margin. Their remax-ability seems too strong but at this moment the game seems quite balanced right now. Knowing that perfect balance isn’t possible we might to learn to appreciate it more as it is. To me it’s hard to compare Byun, when he was in his peak (before his army service) to Maru, who is currently (last years) in his peak. It’s like comparing different era’s on who is strongest…
When Byun returned from the military, he broke the stereotype that you would play bad after your military service, but he initially was on par with Maru until he overwhelmed him. Watching Byun vs Dark was like watching wings of liberty campaign against zerg at top level. Then in some online tournament, he even overwhelmed Serral in addition to Maru. He is the One Punch Man of starcraft 2 but since this isn’t the One Punch Man universe, his wrists didn’t come stronger, they become more broken. Maru’s wrists are fine, because he prioritizes efficiency above all else. He’s literally starcraft 2’s Napoleon and if he was a starcraft 2 character, he would be an emperor if he’s evil or the greatest space fleet admiral amongst the terrans. Arcturus Mengsk is no Napoleon at all btw, he’s a strategist rather than a leader.
Edit: Arcturus Mengsk is Oberstein from Legends of Galactic Heroes if he had a bigger character development. Reynor is Yang, Maru is Reinhard.
I can say to you from the bottom of my heart that Protoss is not overpowered. That said, it feels very unfair playing vs. Protoss because P is easier to play and forgives so many big mistakes compared to both T and Z.
You can convincingly outplay the Toss opponent and still lose.
I’m glad you waste no time in making sure that anyone intelligent can disregard your opinions. Imagine saying “Being in the top 200 players on your region isn’t representative of high level StarCraft” XD Like yeah all of Serral’s games on ladder, not high level StarCraft. Clem and Reynor facing off in GM isn’t high level either, it’s PlebCraft, no skill involved XD We all know GM is for low level players, real pros are in Bronze, the true exclusive club XD
To quote you from another thread
So when you leaving with your delusions? XD
The bottom line is, the evidence has been shown that Protoss is OP. Protoss are having more “upsets” lately than are within the statistical norm, suggesting they aren’t outliers but that all the protoss players got universally better after they were buffed (but dw, forum protoss have assured us that this is a coincidence and that the patch did nothing, in fact some even say they were nerfed). GM is dominated by Protoss every season, frequently exceeding their total ladder pop by over 10%. Much more significantly: Honest high level protoss have admitted their race is advantaged at every stage of the game; thank you to PartinG and, to a lesser extent, Rotti, for being honest with the community at large and putting the game before your egos. PPP could learn a lot from them. Of course, the PPP have denied that validity of their claims despite taking up the “Zerg OP” banner the second Rogue said the same thing about Zerg in 2018. This hasn’t surprised anyone, PPP is largely comprised of liars, deniers, and apologists that openly admit they don’t care if Protoss IS OP, they DESERVE to win just because they picked Protoss. Anyways, congrats on slowly throttling SC2 to death. Thank bog Brood War got the flying SCV patched, the balance there is much more reasonable and Protoss is far less abusive.
Farting the Little Boy and no one cares what he says. Except, it seems, whining terran players.
A known dbag and very, very low level player. Rotti would barely be in diamond if this game had the WOL population on the ladder. He also only cares about money.
Glasstoss can’t even win a GSL CODE S. Yet whine tearans still whine.
Being in GM is playing ladder very actively and hitting above ~5k MMR. That is not top 200. The genuine top 200 when looking at MMR is clearly based on MMR. Do me a favor and look at the highest 200 MMR players in a region. They may or may not be in GM depending on how actively they play. That is exactly what I mean. When you take the top 200, take the ACTUAL top 200.
Hey, serious talk here. Do you even play this game? If you had ANY understanding of SC2 whatsoever, you would know there’s a 30 game quota you need to reach to stay in the GM league.
I don’t know why you are here. You have no understanding of how the rank system works. Are we even talking about the same game?
I don’t even want to address your second paragraph. You don’t even know how the forums work on a basic level. Why are you even here? I’m being 100% serious. You don’t understand what you are saying. You don’t understand what people say. So why are you trying to force yourself into a place that is all about communication?
Go look up cognitive dissonance. You have some serious mental issues you need to work out. Leave the forums and don’t come back until you have your thoughts sorted out.
I thought I had seen it all from ClownCollegeWings but he stoops to a whole new level of delusion.
Imagine saying that the top 200 players in North America, or Europe or in South East Asia are not high level players. Imagine climbing the ranks in the ladder where the system is designed to place you against opponents of equal skill level and then saying that the names at the top don’t represent the high level skill.
Further more to this incredibly stupid claim he goes on to give validity to a troll thread just because the trolling nature of it supports his beliefs lol. This guy is such a lousy person no wonder he plays protoss and can’t escape gold league.
I can read just find. You just aren’t capable of expressing any reasonable thought that makes sense.
You’re literally saying that someone in Grand Master isn’t good enough at the game to draw conclusions about the state of the game lol.
Thats like saying if someone is a Grand Master Chess player, theyre not good at Chess if theyre not the best player in the world. You’re such a tool, you should just walk away from any ideas that are in your head cause its gotten incomprehensible how dumb you are.