Protoss have been babied by overpowered defensive mechanics

This response doesnt enter their brain unless its mutalisks and theyve been caught with their pants down with no pheonix or stargates.

Otherwise they make 5 pheonix and trade super cost efficiently with one of the hardest unit counters in the game.

If protoss didnt have their racial advantages to deal with drops they would lose their minds lol

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Anyway, protoss wouldn’t need such dedicated defensive mechanics if terran and zerg didn’t have such ridiculous offensive power. Our units simply cannot trade blows with terran units, or keep up with zerg units, until our higher tech units come out, but to get to that point we need to survive. Thus, the shield battery.

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I beg to differ. Your tier 3 literally runs over anything Terran. Protoss splash needs toned down, then gateway can be given some love.

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Beg all you want. PvT has always, ALWAYS been a game of “lets survive whatever absurd early game nonsense the terran has this month until our actually combat capable units come online.” except in very recent months. You want to talk about being babied? This is the first time in years that terran hasn’t automatically been handed map control in the early game, and you guys have absolutely no clue what to do.

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Did you not read what data Blizzard gathered from the pros in the community update? Direct combat strength of Protoss is very strong. When you have a lategame vs Terran as good as Protosses you have to have bad early game units.that is just the way it is. You cant be a godat all stages, even blizzard stated that in their design philosophy.

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I did, in fact. Shockingly enough, that’s not actually what they said.

In other words, the concern is that terrans feel they have to win before protoss get to their end game tech. Plot twist, terran has the advantage early game! Blizzard even says as much. “While tank timing-pushes feel strong”

And since terran players struggle to understand this concept, im going to spell it out for you explicitly. Every game has an early game. Not every game has a late game. So terran is STILL the one in control of the outcome of the matchup, whether it be ending the game or screwing up enough to let protoss get to their turn.

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So if I have the advantage early game, why are stalkers parading through my natural?

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Because youre bad? If youre actually looking for help, post some replays and get some other terrans to tell you what youre doing wrong. “stalkers in my natural” could mean anything from an off-meta build you didn’t expect to “I forgot protoss can leave their base before they finish a tech tree and didn’t prepare.”

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This is why Protoss is getting nerfed. You guys are in denial about your own races advantages. Thankfully Blizzard makes the decisions. If it were up to you, buffed gateway units + insane lategame splash would be your every game recipie.

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Actually Terrans have been on the defensive in the early game for three years, so what are you talking about? Terran power spikes when stim is done until Protoss get splash.

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Blizzard: “Terran has strong early game power”

Bacon: “Im losing to early game protoss offense.”

It seems unlikely to me that the disconnect here is the fault of protoss.

That is in the early game, unless you start arbitrarily declaring the early game to mean “before any tech at all comes online.” I know LoV has compressed the timeline somewhat, but it isn’t THAT compressed.

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I got no idea what he is talking about. The Protoss koolaid is strong in him.

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Please explain what Terrans have to do against early gateway pressure. I hope we are considering macro games and not Terran 1 base all ins here.

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Usually the early game for Terrans in TvP is until stim is done. Before you can’t go out and have map control.

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Im not going to debate hypotheticals with you. If you have an actual scenario you want to talk about, post some replays and we can examine what happened, but “early gateway pressure” is not a helpful descriptor.

Like I said, arbitrarily defining the early game to be “before I get my most basic researchs online” is just serving to cause confusion. Nobody else measures early versus late game like that.

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Gateway tech is on the field.

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If stalkers and adepts canceling my natural is offmeta you really need to start actually playing the game, and watching the pros.

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How would buffed gateway units even work, seen that idea always floating around but never a solid outline of what was wanted besides killing power against zerg and terran tier one units without aoe support.

Quite a lot of Gsl PvTs start with a stalker contain into a early third.

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This is not about my replays but the match up dynamics at higher levels. If your early game is weak against Terrans, that’s your problem and it is not an argument for balance patch.

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Stalkers and adepts need to be split into a steady mainline DPS unit (I prefer the adept for this) and a mobile harass unit (the stalker, in my mind). Let the adept be able to stand and fight, but if you want to get it into the enemy’s base, you have to go through the front door, where theyre expecting you and have prepared.

Meanwhile the stalker can be the more mobile option, able to snipe unprotected bases and workers, but unable to actually take a fight with anything that hits back. Maybe replace the +armored damage with +structure damage.

I could say the same about terran. If your early game is weak against protoss, that’s your problem and not an argument for balance patch. And Blizzard agrees with me, since they seem to think terran has strong game ending capabilities in the early game.

1 Like