The balance is a lit bit unfair on the Protoss pro players trying to make a living. And in the Europe/America scene this goes for Protoss and Terran, they simply cant get near taking a tournament off Zerg.
I’m sorry, but I don’t just accept that Dark, Rogue, Serral, Reynor just happen to be the most skilled humans playing SC2, rather than have a slight edge in racial balance.
Zerg winning every tournament does not make for a healthy scene. I would hope Blizzard would be a little bit quicker to see trends like this and make more relevant changes.
Discuss…
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Hatchery cost raised to 350,
creep tumour spell cost raised to 50 mana,
Queen to 150/25 cost (from just 150)
These could be a good starting point
Thoughts?
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acording to some zerg fans they will manipulate and state its fine coz they win other such things. coz you know zerg players big brain zerg players A-Move right?
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Anyways if we where talking about legit Buffs or Nerfs or something along thouse lines
I would say zerg needs some more Nerfs
Terran needs some buffs
protoss needs some help
you can do this the following just nerf the living daylights out of zerg and then slightly buff protoss
or buff terran a little bit and buff protoss a moderate amount
Personaly I would argue that Zerg having the best late game and the best eco is just silly stupid
however the ‘raise’ in cost isnt something that would mean much it hurt them early game sure but that dosnt adress the 2 major issues of Zerg
Best End Game Period
Best Eco Period
you need to target one of the two. or maybe a little bit of both
Personaly I would like it if i could say Just nerf end game but lets face it Banlings have in the past just been able to be spammible to hit the Late game units of T/P and such which is there T1,
to me T1 shouldnt be that cost effective vs a good number of T3, Seen pure thors nothing eles just get bush wacked by banlings coz Banlings.
which is stupid and shouldnt be. The latest nerf to banlings might help but we have to see about that.
I Think the best result would be the following
Nerf a little bit of Zerg Eco, Maybe Inject larva a bit more energy like 15 or such, or Make Queens take a little bit longer to make by like 5-7 seconds or something along thouse lines.
then another Nerf in there Late Game capibility
Buff T A little bit. Maybe give +1 Armor to Thors or something like that just a little buff hear or there.
Protoss i would buff a moderate amount. Not to much mind you just like 2-3 small buffs over-all while terran only gets 1 buff over-all
So Nerf like 3 things of Zerg
Buff 1 thing of Terran
Buff 3 things of Protoss
in minor amounts mind you the whole 350 min Hatchery is meh, It would hurt there Eco but having that + Queen costing gas + Creep turmour only hurts there Eco and not realy late game much
So Nerf 1 or 2 things of Early game Zerg then nerf 1 or 2 things Zerg Late game combine Nerfs 3
Buff something for Terran just 1 thing try it from there
Protoss needs like 3 buffs over-all, 1 or 2 Late game 1 or 2 Early game total of 3. Pick if you want 2 small early game 1 small late game or vice versius
think thats more of a legit strat
as it is Zergs are so Strong that the matches are THERE to lose, Terran/Protoss dont win matches vs Zerg, Zerg loses becouse of bonehead plays. Terran/Protoss are forced into All-in vs Zerg coz that use to be there weakness thats not realy a thing anymore and thus we see the massive nerfs Zerg realy need.
if you dont wanna buff protoss/terran then Zerg needs more then just 3 nerfs … but as i mention think its best to go with the 3nerf zerg 1buff terran 3buff protoss.
But Serral doesn’t play in the GSL. Oh wait. I mean… ah, Life was the best player but he was banned. Shizzzz… Ah, who was the guy who all-in’d every game? Oh yeah, MC quit playing. There you go. Sadly, guy feels like the last Toss to ever win, about a million years ago.
Mass libs has always been a trump card, but everything Zerg has trumped Toss at the highest level. Making/leaving Zerg this good really feels like a marketing ploy gone wrong. One of those if we allow non Korean Zergs to dominate everyone then the game will gain lots of fanfare and we can recapture the “idra days.”
Turns out… people would actually prefer a balanced game. I think it’s kinda sad that someone as good as Serral wouldn’t pull a rogue and ask for a better balanced matchup. Easy for us to say, I guess.
Think about how nutty it is, though. For years… no one won a late game against Zerg. Pure infestors, alone, couldn’t be beat. Then they removed the infested terran, which was considered the most imbalanced thing… and… Zerg didn’t miss a beat. One race has so many options that are 10,000x better than the tempest or any option Toss has.
It’s amazing that anything besides wrestling can be rigged this much. Credit for the patch to come, but man is it many years past due.
but…but…Protoss is broken, and because of Protoss OP, that’s why Stat took one game from Rogue , it should’ve been 4-0!
dude relax, things will get better when stats and zest retire in the end of the year
/kappa
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Okay, but aside from Trap, when Stats and Zest go, which protoss players can really be considered top tier protoss? HerO? Please.
Parting? A one trick who relies on cheese and hyper aggressive plays. If they don’t get the necessary damage done for him to carry his momentum through, he dies pretty much instantly - and he still has to go to military too.
Your best chance would be Classic, when he comes back from his military service, but that depends entirely on IF he comes back, and if he’s able to perform.
The last time Protoss won a GSL hosted tournament was Classic - he beat Gumiho in the GSL Super tournament in 2019.
2018 was the year of Maru and Serral, but Stats won GSL Super tournament season 1 in 2018, and we had a PvP super tournament (season 2) finals with Classic vs sOs. However, the main series tournaments were all won by Maru that year.
2017, GSL season 1, Stats was the winner. 3 years since we’ve had a GSL tournament won by a Protoss, assuming we don’t include Super tournaments.
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Name me one foreign player that has the same amount of skill as Serral and Reynor. JUST ONE. Hint: there’s none. If you can’t accept that, that’s not our problem, you’re ignorant and flat out wrong… and that’s alarming that would nerf Zerg to the point where LESSER SKLLED PLAYERS would win tournaments. Sorry that’s not how it works!!!
For GSL, that’s mostly due to Terran taking almost all the GSLs, NOT Zerg. Imagine thinking thinking this is a Zerg problem when most GSL wins are Terran.
If Protoss players want to win tournaments, the first thing that’s needed is HARD WORK, dedication and practice. Stats’ showing in that GSL finals was flat out embarrassing for someone that’s supposed to be “professional”.
And rogue and dark. Shut up you plat noob. It looks like that if you play a broken race. Give protoss fist of neeb lategame and you’ll see yourself whinning here like you always do. Plat spends more time on forums then in game. And how on earth can you compare 2 players who play 2 different races, which require different mechanics, build orders, microing, get outta here noob and reach diamond.
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Oh no!!! Players other than my race are skilled and can win tournaments! What a tragedy.
Sure PLATINUM zerg player.
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IMHO protoss need something to micro around at the highest levels, while zergs need some QOL change at lower levels, it’s like to play effciently protoss you need 300-400 apm , while to micro late zergs at perfection you need 400-500 apm. That difference gives you a stronger army late game as a zerg, but only if you can keep up with that mad micro.
I don’t think that this may be felt under GM levels, though, so it’s useless crying if you’re not GM anyway, zergs have already received a lot of nerfs, just the same as protoss, they have not to be nerfed, they have to be changed
Terran hasn’t won a wcs since 2016. Fortunately, we have enough IQ to understand the game isn’t balanced around the ro1 of tournaments, or else you wouldn’t have single player like serral winning everything.
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Not saying you are wrong, but that applies for every race, top terran?, there were never more than 4-5 at most unless we count gomtvt era, now there are few top T players and at the moment one of them lose a game the drama starts.
Top Z players, the same, there are only a few, Serral, Reynor, Rogue and sometimes Dark, even if Z is OP you will never see Risky, lambo or TLO winning titles.
P players, the same, only a few of them and they shine from time to time, Classic retired, Stats will retire soon…now the P race has Trap,Parting the micro player/cheeser Zest when he does not throw and…Dear?, mostly Trap will carry the P race in the future probably and showtime at EU, but I’m not seeing them winning titles.
Balance aside, people must realize the top players are really few, and if they do not perform well, the races results can vary a ton.
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And it should be very obvious that showtime and Trap and not as good as Serral and Rogue. That’s not a balance matter… that’s just those individuals being better, smarter, faster and more skilled at the game.
Only one player can win a GSL’s season… and honestly I don’t think players like Zest and Dear deserve that right now… I like Stats but clearly his GSL finals’ showing was a big disappointment.
Yet players still come on here and whine that Toss is OP… LOL!
How many times did zest lose to maru?
The emphasis on fixing the matchup has to be on early and mid game.
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Problem is, Protoss and even Terran cannot keep up with how Zerg production works. Lings literally control the entire map until midgame and even then sometimes As others stated unit interactions may not even be the problem, the problem lies in the fact you cannot touch a zerg shy of an allin early game and even if you allin that puts you at even supply with the zerg at the start of the allin.
Queens either need a tag so they can actually be killed, or else larvae is going to need a nerf. The problem always lies with the fact Zergs production is super cheap, a spire is a little more expensive than a factory and Terrans have to build multiple factories and the same goes for rax. The same thing goes for Protoss, you just simply cannot get enough units early game because you just mass queens and insert x unit here to help with defense and its just insane. You kill creep, but tumors are so cheap when you got mass queen you just instantly replace them. Also pervert pillars need to go in the next map pool, that is the single biggest change I would like to see implemented as well.
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