Why do I think Protoss needs a nerf at the beginning? Simply because I’ve seen abusive strats involving both zealots and photon cannons. The nerf goes like this:
Photon Cannons and Zealots have 30% lower stats (atk, hp, shields) until cybernetics core is complete.
But no, I hear you say, won’t Terran and Zerg all-ins be too powerful? Well no, you’ll have to scout it, just like every other race does.
No free mineral advantage for Toss, anymore!
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P.S. Anyone who disagrees with this is probably a troll.
It’s only until cybercore is done. That’s less than a minute in a standard build. I chose to do that because I believe Protoss gets too large of an advantage with multiple openings.
And what happens if the Cybernetics Core gets destroyed? Zealots and Photon Cannons would lose that health right? That’s quite a ridiculous change even if you only intended for it to be temporary.
That is true, and a good point. The cybercore has a fair amount of HP, and can be in the middle of the base, so maybe it isn’t that bad.
If it is, maybe the effect should be permanent (after cybercore is built)
That would require an upgrade, which delays the health even further.
I don’t think it is at all reasonable to reduce Zealot or Photon Cannon health by that much.
If Cannon rushes in particular are a problem, the quickest fix is to increase their build-time; which grants other units more time to react. On defense that isn’t too big of a problem.
That would be even worse for Protoss than my suggestion, because it affects them all game. I wish that there was no proxy attacks available to any race.
About Zealot and Photon Cannon health: They are very strong at the start, I don’t see any real problems. The openings will be impacted slightly, but I think that is fine, because Protoss can get away with alot at the moment.
First, a small build time increase has nowhere near as much effect as a 30% drop in health.
Second, defensive structures are typically made long before they are actually used. There are very few cases where an extra 3.5 seconds on a Photon Cannon’s build time will be a problem for Protoss on defense, but it will definitely give SCVs, Drones, and early combat units more time to kill those structures during a cannon rush.
Not anywhere near enough to justify a 30% health nerf. That kind of change is extremely excessive.
In many brood war games, the Protoss times their cannons to come out just in time to defend against zerglings. That is just one example. Reactive play will be hurt.
Zealots and cannons are quite the bullies in the first few minutes. Alot of people quit, or start playing Toss themselves after seeing it.
That is Brood War, not SC2. There are plenty of differences, including the number of workers and how the early-game economies play out.
Do you think it is reasonable to lower Marine health to 30 before the Factory is built? Yes or no? Because that is the kind of change you are suggesting here.
Same question for Queens and Zerglings. Do you think Zerglings should have 25 health and Queens should have 120 health until the Lair or Roach Warren is finished?
There is pretty much no case where you can reduce a unit’s health by that amount without causing problems. It is not a reasonable suggestion.
You’re missing an important point here. Marines are very weak at the start of the game. Zealots are very strong. People take advantage of this with rushes, or greedy play.
Marines can use walls, bunkers, and micro to compete against Zealots in the early game. Terran also has other units (Reapers, Hellions, etc) that can get map control and perform reasonably well against Zealots at that phase.
Every race has rushes, but they are never severe enough to justify nerfing the starting stats of units by 30%.
Some do, some do not. The difference in the number of workers and the early economy make the early game in Brood War much tighter than SC2.
Brood War units are also generally less cost-efficient (either based on production rate, stats-by-cost or both), but more supply-efficient. That said, this does not apply to every unit.
The first Zealot is extremely difficult to micro against. One or two marines take too long to kill it. Bunkers set back your economy. Walls are okay, but expanding is still a problem, and will most likely be later than the Protoss expand.
At 150 hp (shields + hp) I would argue that this isn’t true.
The openings are very similar, and the concept of build time affecting the matchup doesn’t change much.
That is also a thing against Adepts, Stalkers, etc. If the enemy is on your side of the map, then you cannot expand on the low ground unless you have enough units or defenses in place to hold it.
Your suggestion removes either 30 health or 45 effective health depending on how it is implemented. No that is not a reasonable nerf.
No they are not.
There is a huge difference in the strength of the starting economy, and how quickly you can pump units out for defense between the games. Brood War timings are much more important, and you can easily run into build order losses in that game.
It is much easier for the Protoss player to micro a Zealot than for a Terran player to kite with his units. Alot of players don’t have the skill or ability to do it. Also, most people are playing the game for fun, not as a job. Intense micro turns most people off.
So what? Terran can open Reapers, Cyclones, or Hellions to deal with it. All of those units are faster than Zealots, making the micro much easier than it is with Marines (at least until Marines get the critical mass, upgrades, and Medivacs they need). Or the Terran player can wall off and build a bunker at the natural, and that should be sufficient until the Terran army reaches the critical mass needed to start trading effectively.
StarCraft has always been a game that requires at least a certain amount of skill for certain units and compositions to be effective. That is true in both SC1 and SC2. To be blunt, that skill floor is not particularly high either.
You are asking for some rather ridiculous nerfs just because you don’t want to put in the bare minimum effort.