Don’t get me wrong, the prism triggers me to my absolute core, but when off racing, I know that when I accidentally warp in from a far from Nexus pylon that it can be a hame ending mistake. After this? It seems like making a warp prism will be a game ending mistake.
We can’t want this, right? That’s an entire tech tree just gone. I like to have earbed my wins, not be spoon fed them (like Protoss January 2017 style).
I’d say the combination of the prism nerf and recall nerf seems a bit heavy handed too. Are you also surprised at how big the nerfs seem compared to other patches and their traditional way of acting?
They’ll probably end up toning it down. They always start big and then trim the fat so to speak so I try not get too excited by how the patch looks now. Plus there’s a second part of the balance proposal that will follow up in two weeks that might counteract this first part.
They should scrap the Stim buff and the current WP nerf. The WP should get a nerf where it cannot pick up and load any units when it’s in the deploy mode that way there is a trade off. Also the big problem with the WP that gets frequent complaints about is the insane 6 pick up range which keeps the WP out of risk compared to other dropships.
The rest of the changes(EMP upgrade, IT damage nerf, Carrier interceptor buff and Recall nerf) are fantastic and should be in the next balance patch.
I am looking forward to that so much, the first half had overall great changes except for the Stim change and WP change. I want to see what they are planning in full.
Raver, next time you are in game could you check out my “Better Game Balance” mod?. I’ve been recently updating it and it’s turning out really well with the changes. Always looking for playtesters and people to talk to for feedback.
I actually think the nerf is quite an elegant solution since it doesn’t nerf at all the juggling micro you see Protoss players pull with Archons or Immortals. What is being nerfed is the capability to do that AND warp in reinforcements close to the frontline.
I think the first way Protoss players can adapt to this change is by having more than one Warp Prism with their army when they move out. One for the juggling, another for the Warp Ins. As it is now, a single Warp Prism is far too powerful for how much it costs, and everything it’s capable of doing. If the biggest part of this nerf is that Protoss starts to build more than one or has slower reinforcement times on their offense, that’s a worthwhile nerf meant to weaken the power of their all ins, without “removing them” as you say.
I think giving the Prism a gas cost of, say, 100 might help instead of the current nerf.
While I agree that a gas cost on the Warp Prism would be a nice idea, I’m afraid that it’s unlikely to happen since Shuttles and Warp Prisms have cost the same since the beginning for thematic reasons I believe.
Both Protoss and Terran have had two mineral cost units since BW, Terran has had the Marine and the Vulture and then the Hellion and Protoss has had the Zealot and the Shuttle/Warp Prism.
Zerg in Brood War had “free” detection and scouting via their overlords, which of course could also be upgraded into transports.
Now Zerg mechanics have obviously changed a lot since Brood War but they still have two mineral only units only now this time their second one is the Queen.
It’s been a rule since the original game that each race has 2 Mineral only units and Protoss has always had their transport be that second one for them. This is the same reason that Hellions and Queens will also likely never get a gas cost attached to them.
I wouldn’t draw too many conclusions until we see the second set of changes which I assume will include some terran nerfs. I predict BCs will be nerfed somewhat making the ghost buff more logical. I could also see them toning down IM on ravens as Protoss will become reliant on robo bay openers over twilight mass gateway styles.
Oh, didn’t know that. Thanks!
BC’s and IM are fine.
Did you read what they are focusing on?. Terran doesn’t need any nerfs.
ZvP, mid game against Protoss and late game against Zerg is the focus.
TvP, early game against Protoss and late game against Protoss is the focus.
I think he’s assuming that the second set of nerfs will be added on to the balance changes already proposed.
Which of course is not what Blizzard said. They said they have two sets of different ideas for what they want to do and the first ones they mentioned were the more controversial ones.
If testing doesn’t yield the results they want, their next set of ideas will be safer and less extreme, but with the same goals in mind.
Only the stim and the WP changes were and are the controversial ones. The rest players are generally fine with.
I’m interested in seeing the second set of changes.
I just dont understand what blizzards obssession with avoiding direct answers to problems is all about. Like the issue was the pickup range not the warp in speed. Personally I like slow warp in prism from a design standpoint but this isnt supposed to be a redesign patch its supposed to fix issues with the prism. Like its pickup range.
I agree with you completely and have been saying exactly this since this set of changes have been revealed.
The only logical answer is that Blizzard likes the micro that the pick up range allows and wants to keep it, so they are nerfing the ways the Warp Prism is being used in other ways.
I happen to agree with them. I think the Prism micro is worth keeping and that the problem has always had more to do with Warp Ins than anything else.
The only explanation I can come up with is that killing the warp in speed kills two birds with one stone. First is that if we nerf the warpin speed, no further reinforcements can be warped in without serious risk to the prism. Second, without being able to warp units right in the combat zone, it makes it easier for Zerg to just overrun the allin while still keeping the prism micro.
On a side note, not sure if anyone thought of this yet, but if you do go with the prism range nerf, a lot of the methods of combating battle mech will be out the window as well. Since the cyclones have 7 range lockon + 8 once locked on, if they try using the prism to cut lockons as they do now it won’t be good. I guess you can say, it is a pretty heavy handed nerf vs battle mech if they choose to do range. Just a thought.
If they want to keep it they could reduce it to 4 or 5.
Would that really be a sufficient enough nerf? I don’t think so. If you didn’t want to touch the Warp In rate, a nerf to both the Prism range and its base speed would be needed IMO.
It’s very obvious, they like the range and the gameplay it brings, so they try to weaken the unit in other ways.
Much like they never touched bio DPS, instead fooled around with stim research time to try to balance it out.
Bio dps nerf would shatter the game, in a lot of ways the warp prism nerf will be similar.