Plasma shield upgrades

General Discussion
1

I am too curious about the reason professional players always ignore upgrading plasma shields for protoss , is it too expensive ?
Answers ?

2

Cost and also Attack+Armor is more preferred.

3

It is Armor too , and affects everything for protoss , ground units , air units & buildings , shields constitute significant percentage of overall hp of a protoss even if some abilities can bust them like EMP & widow mine shots , I fail to understand the logic behind it

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4

Think about it for a moment. Protoss unit can never heal, and because they cannot heal, it makes armor when the shield is down more valuable. Shields recharge and health does not, also EMP doesnt care about shield upgrades, one EMP and your walking a thin line. Also the upgrade is cheaper.

5

u could try:)
marine vs stalker with 1/2/3 armor upgrade - 32/39/52 attacks
marine vs stalker with 1/2/3 shield upgrade - 32/36/43 attacks

6

Me too, i think that even in the highest level this upgrade is undervalued and it is a big mistake. Sure when one is doing a tight build that requires strict timings and attack and armor are important it’s normal. But when working with double-forge and your play-style is apropriate (Stalkers, Phoenixes, Archons, Carriers) that is more important than even armor.
Also, who uses heavily static defense must understand that for Cannons and SB that is the only upgrade available.
Who depends in hit and run and tends to save and reuse units this upgrade is even more important than armor itself.
Carrier’s interceptors also are impacted.
When resources (mineral/gas) are available and one forge is Idle the best strategy is to go for Shiels.
People like to throw numbers how armor is more impactful (that is partly true) but forget that while takin damage without Shield-upgrades and surviving you have impacted the hull-integrity that is irreversible, on the other hand a well-upgraded unit in the Shield-direction will take less hull-damage and the shield will regenerated in full.

All this is invalid in a fight to the death. In that case the armor upgrade might be more important (Arcons excepted)…

Maybe my post is not very popular even with protoss, but still think what i posted and try in game to see that i am right!

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7

Which gives the shield an edge over Armor when you rescue units and battle again after recharge

Yes I get your point , if you have to choose between them Armor is better because normal HP always contributes more than 50% of overall protoss units health pool except in the case of Archons , but if you can spare another forge and resources in the mid game , why never go for it , at least for Archons and mixed armies of ground & air

Exactly I agree with every word you said , even in a fight to the death your units will benefit from upgraded shields

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8
  • Armor upgrade is cheaper
  • Most Protoss units start with 1 base armor, thus making raising armor better
  • There are very few ground units that have more shields than HP, and those that are are usually specialist units like Dark Templar. Meanwhile, two of the most used units at the moment, Zealots and Immortals, sport higher HP than Shield pool.

Also, I’m not sure what the order of upgrades pros use nowadays, but with double Forge, the best order should be 1/1/0, 2/2/0, 3/2/1, 3/3/2, 3/3/3. Of course, if you’re going heavier air, you’ll prioritize Shields over Armor, etc. etc.

2 Likes
9

All i am saying is not to change the usual priority of attack/armor (or armor/attack in PvT), but if you are in mid-game and have 150/150 to spare and if your forge is idle, it’s better to go for Shields than to have a Stalker and something extra in that precise moment. After a minute you may or may not have that Stalker but with Shields +1 all your army, ground and air and Structures and Defenses are more powerful.

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10

Do you think if Balance team reduced its cost , people will start priortizing it ?

11

I doubt it, unless they would make it more expensive but beyond the usual effect each upgrade would make the time to begin regeneration (7 seconds) 0.5-0.75 sec shorter with each upgrade.
Numbers can be fixed for balance-reasons but that would incentivize more the saving of the army (to fight another day) which is also an important skill.

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12

Good suggestion , an added functionality can do the trick , even without increasing the cost

13

Why do you go 3/2/1 instead of 3/3/0?
sorry if this is obvious

14

I am a hardened pessimist by nature. Tend always to think the worst scenarios. Only the last upgrade nerff (Forge/Cyber) 15 levels costs around 30 extra-Chrono in order to put the timings where they were.

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15

Yes I remember that …

16

Because you’re maximizing the usage of both Forges that way.
If you hit 3/3/0 first, you’re going to have 1 Forge researching 3 Shield upgrades, while the other Forge will stay useless for that duration.
However, by going 3/2/1 first, you’re keeping both Forges active for as long as possible, thus getting all upgrades faster.
Second reason is that 1st level of Shields upgrade is much cheaper than 3rd level of Armor upgrade, while the difference between 2nd level of Armor upgrade and 1st level of Shield upgrade is very small.

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17

I have seen a long post very well written in reddit/Tliquid where the order of upgrades were optimized for minimal (next to 0) Double-Forge downtime up to 3/3/3 in record-time. I don’t know if this is the Aurioch formula.

P.S I see that it is indeed the Aurioch formula.:grinning:

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18

This can be easily calculated