The hate started for me with patch November 2017, you know the one that removed MSC but overbuffed everything:
Brought Pylon overcharge
Brought overbuffed chrono boost - I still remember that Abyssal Reef game where oracle came before my widow mine I was like whaat
Made Disruptors more powerful
Brought offensive Shield Battery Tempest/air builds
And 50 APM nabs can A move carriers and destroy easily everything with them (that is before tactical jump came to say we have something too)
And forever changed winrates to 30% whereas in 2017 I was 55% TvP, I knew the matchup since WoL
That combined with the ignorance of damage control posters were determined to call PPP Protoss Plat Patrol as most are such or dont even play
Now
Is different, Pro level doesnt look that bad but since Balance isnt so bad for Terran I dont get it design still makes TvP pain to play unless ur the very top
Overall I dont really care… im ready to move to new game, War3 reforged hype died to be it, so perhaps new ones or as I said im making my own games as I design games too, obv on smaller scale.
im just saying history here :>
2 Likes
The buffs/nerfs that protoss has receivecd is all subjective. Some things that I would consider a buff you would say is a nerf. For example, removing Z damage yet increasing their speed. They are nearly as fast as stimmed marines and cyclons. its all from your point of view.
But lets go with the nerfs from the past 2 years. Do you not think they were justified after the over buff in the patch that I shall not mention. Also it wasnt all nerfs. We have to agree that sheild batteries and voidrays were out rigt buffed. there is no disputing that. These were nearly game changing buffs despite the other buffs/nerfs that we can argue over what they were. This shield batter buff happened around teh raven nerf which was also game changing. And there is no arguing that.
As far as tournament wins goes. That is just an excuse to move the goal post. First it was well P is beating the ladder. Then it became well aligulac says this. Then it went to well look at Pro/GM success only. Then it went to well look at tournament wins only. The goal post has finally been moved to a point where every one can agree that P is not winning tournaments. The reason is that top protoss is not as skilled as top T or top Z players. The things that P can get away with all the way up to the tippy top. they cannot get away with it there.
For example, warp play is cancerous on the ladder. At the tippy top were they have the APM and impecable decision making they counter it forcing P to play a more honest game. However, since most toss players are not used to do that. They naturally fall back to the brain numbing strategies that they use all the way up to the tippy top.
This is also why I only watch the pro games at the tippy top. its not becuase of toss losing but to figure out how toss shenangians is nutralized. I am at the point where I can play a drawn out game in PvT and not just lose to blink stalkers any more. Just a few more b/s startegies I have to learn how to counter…
1 Like
Yes, I think the whole toss hate meme started in BW, despite them also not standing out there.
As far as Warp-in mechanics go, I used to also parrot the mindset of “Gateway has to be weak”, but looking at the units we have I don’t really necessarily think that’s the case
Zealots? We know Chargelots is a core and mineral dump
Stalkers: more early game-ish and emergency anti air. Very microable in small fights. Not as good in army fights
Adepts: similar to Stalkers. Early harassment units that don’t scale that well afterwards. Terrans have the same issue with Reapers, except I would argue Adepts last longer than Reapers
HT: good units if you baby sit them
DTs: same as HT in different ways, high risk high reward units.
1 Like
Terran had all ins as strong as 4 gate blink all in, they were nerfed in 2 or 3 months after. Blink all ins are known for blizzard to take time to nerf.
Plus: Warp prism with speed cannot be catched by any terran or protoss air and anti air unit.
Someone pointed out (correctly in my view) that Protoss is a race of extremes.
To counter a strategy, you must get exacly right units.
If you don’t manage to, you lose.
If you manage to, you can anihilate your foes.
People tend to remember more how they got anihilated, than an average match they won.
The design of race that usually forces you to destroy your opponent (unless cheese) is not a good approach for friendship establishment.
What is more, disruptor may feel unfair to play against, because it’s the most prominent example of situation when you’re punished for not controlling/forgetting about your army.
Getting into lurker field without detection or charging into liberator zones are less often situations than losing units to disruptors.
However, I still don’t understand why people overuse word “dominating” in terms of ladder plays. In past season in leagues Platinum-Master, the only match-up that crossed 55% win-ratio was indeed PvT, in Platinum league (the trend is conserved in leagues Bronze-Gold as well). Outside it, match-ups are usually between 50-54%. Nothing suggests a strict domination for me.
Protoss is best balanced in Master, where opponents know better how to go around disruptor problems. PvT is 51% and PvZ is almost 50%.(5)
Ladder looks as if soft rock-paper-scizzor on ladder, Protoss beats Terran, Terran beats Zerg, Zerg beats Protoss.
But because of core design of race, it’s just annoying to get into losing situation vs Protoss.
- Global Replays Reporting [Internet].
Sc2replaystats.com . 2020 [Online]. Available from: <https://sc2replaystats.com/stats/analytics?group_by%5B%5D=player_division&group_by%5B%5D=matchup&server%5B%5D=us&server%5B%5D=eu&matchup%5B%5D=PvT&matchup%5B%5D=PvZ&matchup%5B%5D=TvZ&format%5B%5D=1v1&game_type%5B%5D=AutoMM&division%5B%5D=diamond&metric_options%5B%5D=games&metric_options%5B%5D=win_percentage&date=June%209,%202020%20-%20October%201,%202020>
1 Like
I guess what I’m wondering is what makes you think protoss players are worse? I see a lot of people say TY and Maru are way better than guys like Stats or Trap and I’m just wondering how you’ve come to that assumption. Also do you play on NA? My PvT winrate is terrible this season (35%), and I wouldn’t mind a sparring partner, it seems we are both diamond.
1 Like
to continue my thoughts on this…toss play mind numbing strategies which get nutralized at the tippy top, which is why I only watch games at the tippy top. I play a very high-iq play style (turtle mech) which recquires inteligent positioning and strategy. can’t just a move a prism into the enemy base and win. you have to build up an army of thor/cycloin and get it across map. toss is a joke.
1 Like
Haha good point, lemme rephrase that, what makes people think that the Terran players are so much better that they play at a disadvantage and still win?
I’ve already mentioned it. In short despite the advantages thatP has as evident at all levels of play they cannot beat the guys at the very top. The guys at the top or not only good enough to make the match up even. They are so much more skilled t hat they make such broken things that toss has seem irrelavent. The thigns that are given everyone on the ladder a problem is of no conseaquence to them.
1 Like
Wait are you CheeseClown too? And if you are I’ll message you later, I’ve got some work to do for a bit.
1 Like
take one zeal walking into your base in the first 2 min of the game; for everyone below pro level, this means you don’t get to expand for 6-7 min.
take one adept walking into your base after you expand and starting to reck scvs. this means you have to lift off and can’t mine for 6-7 min.
pros don’t have to deal with these conseaquences.
Cheese clown is a fraud a phony a fake a replica. They are mad that I proved my point and the only thign they have left to do is to troll.
1 Like
I got banned for spam so I made this back-up account which I know use on my phone, and my other account on my desk-top. I flip back and forth.
You lack so much perspective that you don’t even know… There’s a reason why Protoss units are such a waste of money, they don’t have dps to justify their cost, that’s why it’s so dependant on splash damage, open your map test and throw 30 sup of marines vs 30 sup of zealots. The Charge nerf was so severe that Protoss dps is not the same anymore, now Terrans will kite you to death with almost no losses while before I could trade realy well with a kiting Terran, I feel the speed buff in runbys only.
Shut the f up, Start a game with Protoss and go build a voidray, it’s the most useless unit in the game, across all races across all matchups, even with every buff. Also, this is a cheese unit, a macro player never asked for a buff in the Voidray.
You complaining about battery overcharge shows how much of a clown you are, if you take pride getting free wins with a super agressive 2 bases all in should be a build that must work everytime go play another game.
The battery overcharge wasn’t even made to defend Terran pushes, the balance team needed a bandaid to fix PvP, that’s how unreliable the Protoss race is.
Mercurial, if you checked his profile from last season you would have seen he was 3-9 as Protoss and placed Silver. And then claimed “he never tried to ladder as Protoss”.
Dude even if you didnt, I could get SIlver with my eyes closed. I got placed Platinum as Terran after starting it pretty much cold just messing around last season. He knows damn well that Protoss isn’t easy mode.
He is willfully blind to his own bias and self gathered evidence to the contrary. It would be like you telling me “that rock is really heavy” and me saying “no way” and trying to pick it up and failing. And then later claim I didnt really try to pick up the rock but if I did it would be easy.
2 Likes
Wow you’re right… I guess I was giving him too much credit lol
Edit: It was actually 3-7 tho