So recently I’ve been testing some of the commanders on how they fair on 1-base only. And surprisingly (for me), it’ll probably change how I play going forth on many of the maps.
The most notable ones are Alarak P3, Stukov P1, Fenix P2, Zeratul P3, Zagara P3, and Tychus P2. There are some others (like Artanis P3, Vorazun P3, and such) that work well only due to the non-timer type of missions, such as VT, RtK, LL, etc.
I suppose in fairness, it’s not that the 1-base doesn’t work for them, it’s just as timer-missions go, there’s no real reason to push for time… thus getting an expansion only makes it easier (and gives you something to do).
I’ve noticed that for example, Alarak P3 on 1-base makes a far faster clearance and timings on base wipes. Stukov P1 surprised me with how economical his DBs work off of 1-base (which rings true for Alarak P3). These don’t really require higher economical supports. Some of the other obvious ones like Zagara P3, Fenix P2, Tychus P2, and Zeratul P3 didn’t come as a surprise to me (as I’ve been doing this a lot previously).
Just wanted to share this cool new discovery… well for me lol.
Oh yeah, forgot to put Dehaka P2 in my list. Most of these prestiges make it better to just 1-base.
Well I mean some were 1-base pre-prestiges. That’s why COs like Tychus, Zeratul, Kerrigan and Dehaka didn’t really come as a surprise to me. After trying the others, it worked quite decently. A surprise but a pleasant one for sure.
[silly]Damn you, now I have to hope the forum is not visited much![/silly]
Comedic exaggerations aside, I really worry about all those noobs/idiots that not only are worth of this title by playing at a harder difficulty level than they can managed, but also far too often by not knowing how to take an expansion (or that it’s even possible).
And now you’re feeding them that it can be a good idea and something someone experienced would do, so they will keep pulling on that door while ignoring the “push” sign a little above
…
Yeah I really hope they don’t read the forums lol
The general theory is that if you are producing many units, you should always try to get 2 bases. For the hero-based commanders, it’s probably not as urgent and maybe even completely unnecessary to get a second base. Maybe 2 bases will get your upgrades faster (for heroes), maybe not, I’m not an expert in that sense, but unless you’re going for completion by speed, there is literally no reason to skip having a second base. Getting that second base up ASAP pays off very well. For Tychus P2, I could agree with you. On the other hand, for Stukov P1, I will disagree with you at every step of the way. You are most definitely hurting yourself by not taking a second base with Stukov P1.
That’s why it surprised me. I used to open CC first and works out great. Then doing 1-base, I’m pushing faster than before without much recourse. Faster timings overall, including 18min ME (which isn’t usually for me for Stukov).
Ignoring commander specific perks an expansion costs:
400 for structure
150 for 2xrefinery
1050 for workers
100 for supply building
Or about 1700 mineral to establish…
Depending on saturation speed it will take 3-5 minutes to pay off and generate a profit.
What can 1 base DBs do in 3-5 minutes?
That said, I find the idea a bit of a stretch unless I’m absolutely certain that my teammate will be able to hold their own and in a random game I wouldn’t want to rely on this.
Also just for my own abilities… alarak p3 for example is fine as long as you don’t take a bad engagement, if you do then the extra economy can be the difference between a quick rebuild and losing a game.
Don’t know what else to tell ya. Not convincing anyone to go 1-base here. Just stating that when you appropriately play Stukov P1, you can do a much faster timing. 11.5min L&L is my most recent Stukov game.
This can be true, the extra gas helps to rebuild, and get some of those upgrades in. On 1-base, most of that is spent on the Destroyers. You might be surprised but the limiting factor isn’t really gas here, it’s MS’s cooldown to summon them. The 2-base does offer a cushion, if you do really really poorly then resummoning MS takes a good 400 chunk outta ya, which is hard to come by when you’ve invested in destroyers (now lost I suppose). Then again, I suppose for Alarak P3 the point is don’t take engagement that badly… I think no amount of economy is going to save you if you lost 20D + MS midway through… again it won’t be resource that’s the issue, it’ll be the cooldown to get back to 20+ Destroyers.
Ah! I remember when releveling Dehaka (wich I disliked a lot) through the third prestige, I figured I could just yolo with dehaka and pack leaders (P2) in VT for easy, fast wins.
Yeah I like the destroyer build but I try to build production behind it so that if something drastic does happen to my destroyers then I can switch into ascendants/WWs or whatever as the cooldown is too slow to recover destroyer numbers.
I find it also helps the destroyers against some tough compositions to have the supplicant/havoc wall to hide behind even if it’s a relatively small supplicant force (and it doesn’t hurt to have 6 or so ascendants gaining stacks).
Anyway forge upgrades help as well so it fits together well I think.
Most of my faster times come when both players are on one base. Specifically, not having to spend minerals and supply on workers is a useful advantage for some commanders.
I one base on Nova pretty much always unless I am going for an air heavy composition. Masteries are nuke/holo decoy cooldown, combat unit attack speed, and +5 life regen but around 4 life regen tends to be enough to top off your units between engagements. I use p2 because my minerals are all tied up on units, the main composition being hellbat/marine/goliath and maybe marauders or banshees/ravens. I skip the starport entirely usually but it is good in some scenarios, I also dont bother with the extra gas extractors since the mineral timing is very tight between upgrades and units deployments/defensive drones, the extra gas is unnecessary. I only use 1 engineering bay and start upgrades pretty much as soon as possible. With all this into consideration I can reliably solo most maps while pushing an army out into the map as soon as Nova spawns with more units than I would otherwise have so early. The real key is to not lose any units early on which the drones and hellbats help with a lot. Later on in the match it is more difficult as you can hardly afford to replace lost units but Nova helps a lot to clear the late stages regardless.
I also one base p0 Raynor semi often, on a map like Scythe of Amon it is my standard. Often just one orbital command but at most two, more would be rather unnecessary since the minerals just help build more marines but I dont tend to lose enough of them for it to matter although you have to wait for the payback. With 3 barracks 1 factory and 1 starport you can develop a powerful army quite quickly, going up to 5 barracks normally. I tend to get around 1 medic for every 4 marines, or less, maybe 6 marines to 1 medic. The rest of the income goes into seige tanks and banshees and you can spend the gas efficiently. A final army might look like 80 marines 15 medics and somewhere around 10 tanks 10 banshees max. I use 50% research cost reduction to make sure I can upgrade both infantry and vehicle attack/armor while producing units, then 75% medic heal additional targets, more wouldnt hurt. Efficient use of the calldowns is the real key since it helps to minimize losses while you ramp up to an early snowball.
Did 1 base P2 Fenix . I felt a little short on gas early mid game, trying to get upgrades, and rush out all the data web ability research. But I didn’t miss the minerals at all .
