Nerf lurker or give to terran fast siege tank or buff ghost

You know there are whine threads about nearly anything in the game, even over 10 years old elements (cannon rushes, mules, creeps’ vision…). And of course, tournament finals are a privileged moment to renew them. So it’s not easy to have a constructive discussion in the first place.

However it might be possible in one of those 4 threads, and if it happens to be constructive (instead of a never-ending exchange of ad hominem arguments), it might better catch the attention of silent… lurkers. :wink:

The major flaw with “Lurker OP” QQ threads is that they come after a much more skilled Zerg player barely won a series with them. RO32 Terrans like Taeja can easily beat Dark and Rogue going Lurkers so what’s the problem?

If a mid tier Zerg would 4-2 Maru with 4 Lurker wins then you’d start to have a case… but it was Reynor against a player worse than him that absolutely refused to adapt.

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Solar regularly uses lurkers to great effect in ZvT beating players like Cure, clem, maru etc. Sometimes the terran has a 10k bank and is maxed out yet dies. These things were never possible even when broodlord infestor was dominating the meta.

Gotta love the whining about lurkers because 1 pro Zerg uses them lol

If you make yourself a name as a champion, then it’s only natural all the other players are considered as challengers. Until the wheel turns. Reynor was once considered a noname compared to Serral, wasn’t he ?

Regarding Clem’s adaptation, it seems to me that he went for ghosts, tanks and scans whereas he usually develops a mine heavy style against ling bane (± mutas or ultras). It might’ve worked but he missed one baneling drop (which was 15 workers kill i believe), and things started going down from there. The game where he had anticipated the lings runby by stationing hellbats in front of his B1 while Reynor pushed with RR went much better comparatively. :mag:

I’ve seen an user on the other threads claiming Clem was a-clicking however, which is nonsensical. I mean even if it’s very quick, it doesn’t requires to be a terran player to see how often he was clicking the banes while kiting → loading back in the medivacs, nor the marines do split themselves automatically, nor the ghosts do snipe in aclic. And the two times he didn’t (split in time, or kite back into the medivacs) he paid that dearly.

Yes, Bio drops/pushes against low Lurker counts, Liberators (potentially), and undetected Ghosts.

However, Tanks are not an option for Bio after Zerg starts making Hive tech units.

No, it’s completely the opposite. Bio-Tank is on a strict timer until Zerg’s Hive tech units hit the field:

  • Bio cannot protect Tanks from Vipers, which hard-counter the Tanks so effectively that they are no longer usable.
  • Tanks become a liability for Bio against Brood Lords or Ultralisks because both units can reliably force friendly-fire (Broodlings or simply being tough enough to close into range) or force Bio to retreat and abandon the Tanks.

Mech can continue to use Tanks after Hive because nearly all of its combat units (both in terms of supply and the unit-types that are actually used) zone enemy units at long range (Thors/Vikings against air and Vipers in particular, Liberators/Tanks in large numbers against ground) or possess some way to protect the Tanks from ground units through Blinding Cloud (Thors/Hellbats through durability, Widow Mines by being a powerful threat that ignores Blinding Cloud).

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I don’t know, but this Maguro guy has a special talent to amass pointless numbers and create bogus and misleading metrics.
In this particular graphics he measures the frequency of seeing a unit and from that implying the importance of that unit in a specific MU. (If the implication was done from the dense ones here i apologise to Maguro).
Maguro-guy forgets that just because someone builds a unit (case in point Reaper) does mean jack.
Reaper is nearly as frequent as Marine but somebody would be a special type of stupid to judge Reaper role nearly as important than Marine/Marauder role.

Some help for the Maguro-guy: Instead of collecting pointless numbers, he can create something that can measure the Chrono level across all Nexi during the span of the game.
Thst would have more meaning measuring the Protoss Macro.

XD XD XD

It is the total inverse of reality. Which destroy the credibility of terran players. Terran is underpowered. But reaper has nothing to do with it. The problem is protoss skill floor is too low. And protoss have worst top pro player. So blizzard buff the top protoss. And since the race has low skill floor. It is a buff to all protoss…

That’s why he includes typical amount in a game…?

Yea, that typical amount is the most significant piece of information there. Maybe that amount could be weighted by the Cost and/or Supply and it could be something. 10 Marines can’t have the weight of 10 BC/Thors.

Unit efficiency graph champ. Typical amount has to be used in conjunction with frequency also… A raven is absolutely necessary in early game in TvT and it can switch the tides in TvP (something that you’ve QQ’d about). Next time you don’t think that’s important try playing without a warp prism. Your bitterness to this website is clouding your brain.

LOL, don’t get me started with “unit efficiency”…
Do you want to know about well designed metrics? Take SQ (Spending Quotient) or SPM (Screens per Minute)…

Metrics that Protoss under performs severely compared to other races lmao. I have never once cared about my screens per minute… but after every juicy bio game I check my unit efficiency. Don’t you rub one out just after you see Cobra trading 4:1 against Z/T?

It’s the Protoss design that makes SQ look worst, just like the Protoss APM that is < T_APM < Z_APM. If somebody is massing Carriers by the time that second and third Stargares are over he needs 1500/1000 to start Building and some more to continue with double air-upgrades.
Only unit worth 50 minerals in our arsenal is…Probe.

Protoss apm is inflated by warping in using rapid fire. SQ is bad for protoss because of Zest and warp ins, not just saving for a tech transition… Zerg has to do that too with mutas and tier 3. Terran dumps their excess minerals into CCs.

Not in the same amount of Z and T. Having 10 units instead of 50 tends to reduce your APM.

More units doesn’t always mean more APM. A 1a is a 1a we’re not playing broodwar. This is the perfect example… https://www.twitch.tv/partingthebigboy/clip/AnimatedSpinelessSalsifyOhMyDog

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Inb4: Fast forward to IEM katowice and everyone dies to Hydra-Lurker-Viper including in ZvZ. We either get a 4-0 PvZ final or a ZvZ finals between [pick 2 of Dark/DRG/Rogue/Serral/Reynor]. A month later Lurkers are nerfed.

This has been the story cycle for some time now. Random and unnecessary buff to Zerg at the beginning of the year ----> Slow meta progression to incorporate new broken toy ------> Ramping up Zerg domination ending with an embarrassing global finals with Zerg roflstomping everyone ----> New year patch reverts and nerfs the old toy only to introduce another random broken toy for Zergs to play with.

The cycle will not be broken. Not this time.
Hopefully balance team will learn at some point not to randomly buff stuff when they have no idea how it will affect the game. Maybe they’ll realize their job is to just deal with the actual balance problems instead of creating new ones.

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