Post number 6.
It doesn’t really surprise me that anyone will call me “having no evidence”, even though it’s not even too far from the top of the forum, because that’s just how you people really are.
Still, doesn’t surprise me, but it kinda hurt, I care about this game, and see something stupidly dumb about the balance of the game.
I don’t even play Protoss anymore, just playing Zerg. Having a blast of my sc2 journey, but are you really going to say Protoss is in a fine condition? Lmao. That’s more sad than someone seeking attention of anonymous person they’ll probably never even met.
Ramza, you are 99% right. Don’t mind the trolls that try to bully the naive posters with pseudo-mathematic calculations.
For all semblance of rationality the whole long-BS of RaidersRoll falls flat because the troll assumed that Terran has NOTHING BUT Mules.
No, terran-BS’ers, the scenario is not 70 Probes vs 19 Mules but 70 Probes vs. 20 SCV and the rest MULES.
What is infuriating in all this is not the terran-BS (that we have a pretty strong immunity by now), but the insult to our intelligence and the disrespect that those Master-BS’er show for our mental functions.
Either you didn’t read anything past the line you quoted, you lack the intelligence to comprehend what you read, or you are intentionally trying to strawman.
I explained the mining rates of Mules compared to other workers and the number of effective workers that puts Terran at compared to Protoss. There is an 8-11.5 worker discrepancy in favor of Protoss, so in order for Terran to actually have higher mineral income than Protoss; one or more of the following must be true:
The Protoss workers are heavily oversaturated such that they are mining far less efficiently than normal.
Protoss has up to 12 more workers than the Terran player that are doing something other than mining minerals. That is to say that if Terran has 9 workers mining gas, scouting, moving between bases, running away from harassment units, or building, Protoss has 17-21 workers doing that stuff.
You only gave the total number of workers, which left out relevant details such as how many workers on each side were actually mining minerals and how saturated they were. Without those numbers, any claim you make about the respective incomes of both players is suspect.
Edit: The extra workers were on gas. There is a huge discrepancy in gas income at that time (about 5:1 in favor of Protoss).
Most methods to calculate income in real time will in fact overestimate a player’s income whenever he/she receives a burst of resources. Some methods will level out over time, but the immediate income they report after say, 7 Mules dropped around the same time return their first packet of minerals, will be way off.
I don’t know exactly which method StarCraft II uses, but if it is trying to report income in real time (rather than the total resources acquired over the previous minute) then it will often overestimate income and a single snapshot of two player’s income will be misleading.
How can you defend Ramza? He doesn’t play the game and only spams inflammatory content on the forums that he can’t back up with evidence.
This particular post is not his worst, but if he stopped exaggerating and made claims that were accurate to the game, then he would be able to actively contribute to the game instead of sparking so many dismissive responses.
That was his original post. Its not accurate. That is the problem that we have with him. This scenario is next to impossible to happen in game, so I did the math to prove it. If you want a MULE nerf - or any kind of change to the game - make an intelligent argument and back it up with evidence and replays.
I’m sure you think that is the only reason, even though I already post a replay of match between 2 Pros even, but okay.
Perhaps yes, I didn’t remember the exact number, it was 22 vs 50+, but even then, does that sounds fair to you?
Didn’t even notice someone actually supports me, which is surprising.
Correct, I could barely care about what you post after that line, considering it was supposed to be the de-facto fact of the game engine. I will say sorry for mistaking you for another person, though you must pardon my mistake because your name was pretty explanatory in my mind.
I have read it, and, Terran does pull worker from gas while Protoss keep worker in gas, but I did state my statement correctly that:
And of course, like I suspected you would forget the obvious other point that the Terran might have a 4th CC and perhaps 1-3 more mules other than the one at the base, but even I forgot that, so, whatever.
I don’t really care at this point, all I’ve done is to point some bull Terran can make, especially after some dumb fool actually made a post about how Terran is always behind in eco against a Protoss, while here we see Terran losing 35 SCVs don’t even fall behind in mineral income, and when playing bio, mineral is the resource that holds you back the most.
You want to fight me in PvT?
I don’t mind. I don’t have trouble against Terran at diamond level.
Unless you are M3+, in which then yes, I would probably lose to you, and I wouldn’t blame balance about it.
I made this post to show how damn dumb it PvT is at the pro-level, not at my level. I sincerely have no problem in PvT most of the times, just some bull that makes me rage whenever I see Terran pull off something that shouldn’t be possible.
Do tell me what I don’t understand.
Terran not being punished for forgetting their macro, because, I don’t know, you can stack mules?
Or the fact that
Terran can lose 35 SCVs and don’t feel any of that lost for another MULEs lifetime cycle?
If you won’t bother to read anything another person says, don’t bother responding to it. It’s dishonest to even pretend you are addressing their points in that case.
Which is still a dishonest assertion, because it implies that the extra Probes are somehow involved in mining minerals.
That said, there probably should be a limit on the number of Mules that can be placed on the field by a player at once.
That’s a pretty piss poor argument seeing that those Orbitals then could not be used for Scans. In fact, that’s what makes having Mules so balanced. Its a trade off. Just because one can use mules to out mine their opponent doesn’t mean they should. Again, because Radar Scan is a thing and is Terran’s most flexible Detector. If you’re already ahead it might not be so bad, not having Scan energy, but if you are on equal footing or already behind using energy on Mule instead of knowing what your opponent is doing could mean you’re not gonna make a comeback at all. And if you have the minerals to make that many Orbitals just for Mule later in the game, you’ve probably done very well all game and are likely to win even without Mule spamming.
OP come back when you understand the concept of mules. Otherwise a funny joke thread, whats next probes op… well they are, they can run and build around you.
Tell me the last time you see a pro player uses scan to check the opponent tech.
A good Terran player, and especially the better one prefer losing a unit rather than mules to check their main base, why? 2 Mules already pay for the orbitals them self. After that, it’s just a net positive all the way through the game.
Pro players uses scan to check the opponent’s army position, not to check the opponent’s tech, because anyone that is good enough can and should be able to know that without even looking at the opponent’s tech, just like how you can know when you play PvZ and as Zerg you see a twilight council in the first opening minutes, it’s going to be glaive-adept 90% of the time and DT-rush 10% of the time.
in PvT, all games lead to the same road, aoe. Even when Protoss open stargate, they’ll then open robo into colossus, because that’s the only way Protoss can get aoe early enough to stop Terran pushes.
I think you lack the essential (while not necessarily basic) knowledge of how match up works.
AND, if you’re behind, you should always MULE up.
Knowing what they have won’t stop them to push towards you anyway. It’s better to just roughly speculate what Protoss have and make the counter to them, which is basically just more marauder and more marines (which cost minerals and thus you SHOULD had used MULE rather than scan).
Terran can make, especially after some dumb fool actually made a post about how Terran is always behind in eco against a Protoss, while here we see Terran losing 35 SCVs don’t even fall behind in mineral income, and when playing bio, mineral is the resource that holds you back the most.