Mech is trash, please delete it from the game

It’s impossible to find mech players these days, so I have resorted to begging my opponents to do it:
https://i.imgur.com/4FAQvvQ.png

He does a hellbat drop build where you carpet-bomb the roaches with hellbats, but it’s easily held:
https://i.imgur.com/gNYQC3q.png

He loses his entire army to swarm hosts and roaches with a simple flank while also losing all his eco to a counter attack:
https://i.imgur.com/65QGj17.mp4

He finally taps out after fungal deletes his cyclone army:
https://i.imgur.com/kZDJEs5.mp4

Mech is steaming hot garbage :hotsprings: :wastebasket: :hotsprings:.

Auto leaving against every Protoss opponent and nuking your MMR does that. I haven’t seen PracticeX play a bio TvZ game in almost 5 years. Usually the pattern goes, play mech against Terran and Zerg, the MMR goes :chart_with_upwards_trend: :up: :chart_with_upwards_trend: :up: :chart_with_upwards_trend: :up: :chart_with_upwards_trend: then he runs into all the Protoss that he can’t use mech against and then it’s :chart_with_downwards_trend: :chart_with_downwards_trend: :chart_with_downwards_trend: :chart_with_downwards_trend: :chart_with_downwards_trend: :small_red_triangle_down: :small_red_triangle_down: :small_red_triangle_down: :small_red_triangle_down: :small_red_triangle_down:

The only terran I can recall doing double thor drop builds on the regular was supernova. He also played on NA on a barcode. Some days I would get him 5 times in a row.

Leaving vs >5k protoss doesn’t hurt my mmr basically at all:

https://i.imgur.com/6WVWKsp.png

I still have a 62% win-rate vs toss. You lose the most mmr vs low ranked protoss, and those I clap ez with 4 minute cheese builds because they are diamond league players boosted to gm by carriers so they have no mastery of the early game. The early game is the easiest part of the game to master, and it’s the part they struggle with. Toss late game scaling is so insane that they can get gm without understanding the game at all.

Beating high ranked toss can be done, but it requires a ridiculous amount of effort to maximize every advantage possible. It’s like squeezing water out of a stone:

https://i.imgur.com/ZVz8xmH.png

A game like this will typically take 40 minutes at 300 apm which is 12,000 clicks. Meanwhile they will average 120 from building carriers and cannons. So unless you want to be getting a very expensive hand surgery to fix carpel tunnel, it’s best not to play vs high level protoss. They don’t die to cheeses and, once the macro engine of protoss gets going, literally the only way you can beat it is by doing 30% more multitasking. That’s not a guesstimate either. That’s the average screen movements per minute between my protoss and zerg opponents.

+55 from 40 minutes is 1.4 mmr gained per minute invested. Typical cheese game is +15 for 4 minutes invested aka 3.75 mmr per minute. That’s what Byun doesn’t understand vs protoss. You can’t play macro against them or you might as well kiss your health and sanity goodbye. Imagine being a pro player & not being allowed to do anything except vs protoss all day long. I had a chance to go pro at one point and holy toledo was it a smart decision to say no. You’d have to be insane to play professionally right now.

This same protoss just beat slothera after losing to me. So he’s at least 5800 mmr. vs Terran he has an 83% win-rate. He’s probably PartinG.

By optimizing your time investment for the most mmr gained per minute, you could build your mmr portfolio & retire an mmr-millionaire.

https://i.imgur.com/TAQPTnO.png

:exploding_head:

Obligatory metal music video. Protoss players gaslighting everyone be like:

:musical_note: Am I forced to have any regret?
I’ve become the lie, beautiful and free
In my righteous own mind
I adore and preach the insanity you gave to me :musical_note:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q86owGQzaG0

All I’m seeing is a bio enjoyer masquerading as a mech player. That was far too active, no planetary at the third and a micro intensive Thor drop instead of the usual BC opener. He was also making medivacs because he values engaging with the opposing player rather than watching the grass grow.

I bet you had a giggle when State and Gemini were talking about Bunnys high test wins per minute. Batz likes to mention Bunny’s win rate as an insult but never his WPM. SMH.

I actually listen to GSL casts on mute and have for a long time. Getting good at sc2 has ruined esports for me because the casters don’t know what they are talking about and every game state is already mapped out with rare exceptions.

Don’t worry we’ll all be in platinum league if smurfs keep subtracting more mmr out of the regional pool than new players add back in. In theory they could reduce the gm mmr threshold down to 2850.

Nah mech players who turtle are the easiest kind of mech players to beat. You just put 12 or so swarm hosts into a nydus and hit with roach hydra at the same time as locust waves. Some people like ultralisk swarm host with a few corruptors vs the libs but it only works if tempo is in your favor or all your ultras die to ghosts & every position is pre-sieged with mass liberators. Roach hydra hits faster, can kill flying buildings, and has a solution to the liberators that doesn’t require investing into a spire. As an additional bonus, the swarm hosts benefit from the same upgrades as the main army. Ultras by contrast split the attack upgrades & require an entirely new set of upgrades off the spire. So you just go swarmhost roach hydra, keep him on 4 bases & keep his tank count low. You simply move your army around so it’s hard to preposition the tanks & repeatedly reset the rank and hellbat count.

Hellbats have to be reset because it makes the locust waves stronger and the tank count has to be reset because it limits how much space he can control and that makes it impossible to get a 5th base.

This is assuming the terran does a strong version of mech and not a giga-trash version like banshee mech, which simply dies to a 2/2 roach hydra timing because the tank count is too low & he is permanently behind in upgrades. Cyclone mech is also garbage. BC mech would be good because it forces zerg to get a spire to deal with 3-4 bc counter attacks. It makes defense more complicated and offense more complicated because bc teleports can kill nyduses and things like that. But it’s still very bad because you can deflect the first BC while affording a 4th base and total 16/16/16 6/6/6 mineral/gas saturation. Translation, your eco is absolutely huge.

At the end of innovation’s career he was favoring bc openers mainly because a 3 banshee opener is impossible to do in the online tournaments vs EU due to ping. BC mech is way better. Then zergs realized they can massively delay lair, get 12 queens, build a 4th base, deflect the BC, kill a base of SCVs with a baneling counter-attack at the third, and have insane creep spread all at the same time.

There really isn’t a place for mech in any matchup except maybe TvT. But even then the mobility of bio is just bonkers strong in the hands of strong multitasking players. The ability to move your army around quickly is worth its weight in gold. The way innovation won mech v bio games was to plan on losing your eco eventually because you just can’t keep pace. You just have to hit about 160 supply and you do a push. Ironically, losing a base is helpful here because the opponent has a good chunk of supply out of position for the mech timing. It was the tempo play or tempo plays.

But the worst scenario for mech is definitely vs protoss. Literally everything protoss makes hard counters mech units and that is not an exaggeration in the slightest. Literally everything hard counters mech. And it’s not a soft counter – it’s a hard counter. Everything from zealots to stalkers to immortals. I think the only unit that is bad vs mech is the phoenix, maybe the void ray.

The current map styles play a role too. The more complicated map layouts make mech defense harder because mech defense is about prepositioning. You can’t react to attacks after the fact. The new maps make that harder, especially vs blink. Liberator and mine nerfs also play a role. Liberator affects tvz and tvp and mine affects only tvp.

Personally if I were designing mech I’d make the liberation zones shaped like an elipse. It makes them stronger vs units moving towards the liberators and worse when moving perpendicular. This would make it harder for liberators to shut down protoss’ mineral lines while making the liberator better vs zealot amoves. Widow mines should just be buffed and if toss lose probes it’s 100% a skill issue. They just don’t watch the minimap enough and/or move their camera around enough. That’s why I stress the screen movements per minute metric. It’s obvious that that is the issue and not the mine drop.

Bring back drilling claw mine drop builds, make the liberation zones elliptical, and mech would probably do alright.

Mech is the easiest strategy in the game. The only more played strategy is Sky-Toss. What are you smoking?

Yeah, Mech is probably one of the easiest style in the game. Most terrans use Mech both in TvT and TvZ because it doesn’t require much skill. From my experience, its 60% to 70% of games against terran is vs mech at high diamond low master. I find it just sad.

Mech has a duality where it’s strong in, say, masters-3 and below but at the gm level it’s practically useless. I just played vs rank #29 in Grandmaster:

https://i.imgur.com/0KK3Rrk.jpeg

Zerg has larger bank and is trading way too cost efficiently. I am experimenting & don’t have a lot of practice vs mech and it’s still getting wrecked. There are loads of obvious improvements that I could’ve incorporated, too. Hydra drops to get past liberators. Nydusing the main. This was fighting his army directly which is supposed to be one of mechs strengths.

Trying to find the buffed broodlords being used against mech like:

h ttps://tenor.com/view/exhausted-gif-1650273274120697194

Twitch delivers.

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2258231371?t=3h34m32s

- Wins the fight w/ 16 broods left over.

All you have to do is include blinding cloud and thors lose to broods. Not rocket science.

Also, I think it was you who mentioned the name of “AgentSmith” before:

https://drop.sc/replay/25600984

His openers are good. I lost my main base and had to wall the lower end of my main’s ramp to prevent a baneling bust attack coming from my main base. I’ve played SC2 since 2010 and I have never seen that before. So his builds are crisp. But he struggles in the later stages w/ the more complex late game maneuvers. If you watch it, watch it from his perspective. :popcorn:

I could see meomaika doing this build & he’d just lean into the mutas and kill me before hive. You can trade out inefficiently vs the spores because every spore costs my minerals and workers and I am tight on both.

He stole that build from Berrycrunch but didn’t fumble loading the lings into the nydus. AYYYYYYYYYY LMAOOOOOOOOOOO. Berry should stick to Protoss/Terran.

His version is better than berry’s because it’s done off of a build that can be macro. It would be even better if he put effort into denying overlords that saw he had no third. Even better would be to fake send a drone to the third then deny the overlord. Berry did it off a 14 gas 14 pool so it’s obvious you need to prep for defense. You make queens, hold down the z key, and you win. In this game, I knew a nydus was coming but didn’t expect it that fast. The crazy thing is that I started an infestation pit after as I was losing my main base. I preferred it over a spawning pool, which is crazy. You just land the locusts onto individual banes with target fire. So now we know how the “bane bust attack from your main base” meta is easily defended. You can also fly past the lings & kill the nyduses themselves. Crazy stuff. One overlord scout confirmed the roach switch and that meant I could get a third w/ lurkers. Viper lurker defends any time he tries to attack while swarm host nydus counter attacks.

It’s still a losing position until he loses the hive. That was the game winning move there. You are so far behind in gas that if he just makes his own vipers he wins the abduct wars. So you have to have a hive kill. I timed it as he was doing an attack and that cemented the viper lead meaning he can never attack even though he is massively ahead in supply. His obvious best move is to make mutas for defense. Roach burrow could be good too because you can surprise the nydus & trap swarm hosts & burrow to heal vs the locusts. But mutas would be easier.

It’s crazy that swarmhosts are capable of fixing such an unwinnable game like that. They are bonkers strong. Easily zerg’s best unit by far.

Another fascinating aspect of that game is how a swarmhost baiting him into losing like 20 banes at the front wall. They are surprisingly durable vs banelings so you can use them to block chokes vs baneling busts.

https://i.imgur.com/iSXKdey.png

LOL

OK now I’m actually interested in watching it. I looked at the APM and thought it was a turn based game or something.

Batz: refuses to play terran because it’s too easy
Also Batz: turtles with lurker viper while using swarm host nydus to backstab. Also coming back from a bane bust with free units (equal to mules)

Beating zergs with a superior economy is impossible. Beating zergs who spam lurkers from a superior economy is impossible squared. That game is a technical masterpiece. And you forget that I used to main terran for years and years. People used to harass me as being a biased zerg apologist now they act surprised I play zerg like a terran player. And as I main zerg now I criticize zerg more than I criticize any other race, just like I used to do with terran.

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That game shows how tunnel visioned SC2 players are. He built nydus early game but then never used it, he built mutas but didn’t either clear vision or ambush a swarm host unload. I see it all the time, the trick to beating nydus players is to pretend you’re not prepared for it then jump the units themselves. Atleast he was anticipating nydus networks but you really just out multitasked him.

It’s the attacker’s advantage also known as tempo. You hit a specific weakness that knocks them off balance and then combo off that repeatedly by never giving your opponent a chance to stop and think about what’s actually going on. That’s why pauses at the pro level are so cringe. It gives the defender a moment to gain their composure. I saw parting lose a proxy gate pvt game because of that once. He was 100% going to win until a pause happened and then his opponent’s response became a lot cleaner. I think they actually had to resume from replay or something.

In this case he lost his hive & that put him behind in vipers. This makes it impossible for him to attack. That’s the fundamental issue. The swarm hosts are simply a distraction to keep him preoccupied so he doesn’t have time to think about what his real issue actually is. An obvious solution would be to start a greater spire the moment your hive is being attacked. I have swarm hosts and lurkers. What will I do to stop broods? My third base also has highground right next to it. So conserve your vipers and hit with the broods. Mitigate swarmhost damage until then. Piece of cake. But you have to act fast.

The past three times I’ve run into practiceX, I’ve beaten him. It’s unreal how bad mech is:

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2280571639?t=2h31m0s

The key to beating 3 base mech turtle builds is to make 12 queens and get a fourth and 80 drones as fast as possible while working your way up to lair off a single gas. It’s super duper easy:

https://i.imgur.com/ERIUZDS.png

Mech has no real ability to harass so he can’t contest your drone count. It also has severe tempo vulnerabilities because he can’t have both anti ground and anti air since his factories have to make tanks or thors for the first round of production. He can’t do a mixture because half tanks half thors is guaranteed to lose to a 100% commitment to either roach or mutas. He will have like 3 thors as you are hitting w/ 15 mutalisks and 50 zerglings. No way he holds that unless he has 2 rounds of thor production. But that means you just scout and make roaches instead of mutas.

It’s always been this way. Mech is garbo-tier. Practice x is the highest rank mech player on the na ladder, which means if he can’t make it work then nobody can lmao.

Speed banshee openers are even worse because 12 queens hard counters that automatically and it guarantees the terran is permanently behind in upgrades so a 2/2 roach hydra push at the fourth base is a guaranteed win.

BC mech is also hard countered by the 12 queen opener and it reduces your tank count so substantially you can just amove his third with roach speed and win. Hellbat allins are also countered by 12 queens as long as you make a baneling nest. Liberator mech (off a reactored starport) is probably the strongest version because it can harass (double liberator on top of single mineral lines) and it has both anti roach and anti mutalisk abilities. But it also has zero ability to end the game because liberators can’t target the buildings. So the zerg is guaranteed to survive and to take it to the late game.

It also doesn’t matter if it’s double starport BC or single. 12 queens beats both, lmao.