Marine-Marauder needs to nerf so powerfull for zerg. Zerg has no respond for this.
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Ah actually Z has the easier response to this. Ling bane. Banes are a must against bio because bio scales very well into the late game. If they have medivacs, throw in mutas / hydras.
The key is that you must make sure you donât detonate your banes on marauders which wonât be cost efficient. But on rines and they will melt really fast. Z has it easier because they need minimal micro, and the only way a bio is going to win this is if they learn to micro and split which is a pretty high level order.
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Would you look at that? Itâs the stupidest thing Iâll read today!
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Itâs a fact.
https://imgur.com/NFFo8HE
https://imgur.com/ZTHYUcJ
Marine/marauder does beat everything zerg. They are spammed en masse in 99% of games. The only units zerg has that can match the marine are made in small numbers in rare scenarios (if used in all scenarios, the efficiency would be much lower).
Three units beat the efficiency of marines. They are hydras (used in 20% of games with an average of 27 made), swarm hosts (used in 4.8% of games with an average of 16 per-game), and ravagers (used in 32% of games at an average of 9 per game).
Marines are made in 99% of scenarios and the average number spammed is 84. So yes, marines do beat everything zerg while zerg has a few units that can do OK enough to make a few of them in the right scenario.
Who is playing marine marauder??? You need tanks as Terran thatâs not âmarine maraud beats everythingâ
Iâm honestly surprised (I donât know why) that youâd come in and cry about MMM. I never thought of you as someone who has âself respectâ (if you did, you wouldnât have dared call that paper thin back of yours âmassiveâ), but I thought you had more than that.
Marines: are spammed in 99% of games with a high efficiency in every scenario.
A small handful of zerg units: are made in small numbers in a small portion of games with a high efficiency.
Bourne: Batz is lying about marines beating everything zerg! Waaa!
Zerg does have a response to this (ling bane). The problem is when Terran starts making widow mines. Thatâs when all hope starts to get lost.
Ling bane can beat MM, but widow mine beats LB
So itâs ultralisks or brood lords
Well ghosts and liberators and marauders counter ultralisks
and ghosts and vikings and thors counter brood lords
Thatâs where vipers and infestors come in, but ghosts can counter those
But thatâs where ling bane comes back in to kill the ghosts
TvP? Ghost EMP go brrrrr bye shields and archons and high temps!
Look at the charts. Lings and banes are two of the worst trading units in the entire game.
I just want to thank you for responding to this thread, because I didnât have proof that youâd cry about literally everything Terran had, since they disbanded the old forums. Noice!
Denying facts isnât an argument, bourne. Terran spamming 80 marines in 99% of games is not the same as zerg making 16 swarm hosts in 5% of games. If swarm hosts were used in 99% of game scenarios their efficiency would tank which is why they are only used in 5% of scenarios. Marines beat everything zerg. Thatâs a fact.
Ah actually, the reason why ling bane loses to this is because Z players arenât that used to splitting their army up into waves or sending a couple of âadvance partyâ units. I havenât come across many players who have learnt to micro their mines so that they arenât wasted on the first few lings that run through⊠yet.
One key thing against T is fungal. T thrives on stutter stepping and a well placed fungal can make a difference between an enemy army retreating and a dead army.
Actually, where are the charts? 
Iâd like to look at them to understand the context better.
T needs rines because there are only 3 paths that they can take - bio, mech, or air T. Plus the first units that most people are taught are rines. The only difference is that a bio ball is much easier to play as opposed to a Z because Z is very reactive. If you made too many drones instead of units, it can make a difference whether the bio ball can snowball through your base.
One player you can consider watching would be Scarlett who frequently likes to play burrowed banes. But then, if you are having issues against a bio ball all the time, then Iâm unsure if you will be able to trigger the landmines in time. Really depends on how you are playing though.
20 characters. 12345
Ah okay, thanks for taking the time to share.
Though Iâm curious though because it basically are just ratios but it doesnât state the context of how the numbers are derived. Take swarm for e.g., I have seen really cost efficient ones, but Iâve also seen really crappy ones. So how do these charts come about? Is it a calculation of all the pro matches? If yes, which time frame and how many matches, etc?
Sorry if it seems like I am interrogating but I am genuinely interested to understand more about the charts that youâve posted.
I suspect he tallies all the units that are killed by marines, multiplies them with their resource cost, and divides them by the number of marines made (multiplied by their resource cost).
It tells you the ratio of the investment cost vs the return on investment averaged over many pro games. You can see the data yourself at:
https://analysis.maguro.one/
I would recommend filtering by the tournaments on the recent patch.
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Lol are you gold ? 20 chars
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yes he is . 20 chars
I donât doubt it. Itâs the response, but I never said it was an efficient counter. Bio is just that powerful. Iâm certain spamming roaches alone is worse than going ling bane.
Even the top players still lose a large ball of banes to a mine. Itâs a very demanding skill and very hard to master. Stutter stepping is very easy to do on the other hand. So is sieging up a widow mine.
Thanks for sharing. I understand the context better.
Personally I donât think that the chart paints a clear picture of the cost to ROI ratio. That is because it is strictly focusing on resources only. We can take a look at some of those at the bottom (e.g. viper, raven, infestor, sentry). Just because the ROI is low doesnât mean they donât play a key row in turning the tide. A couple of good blinding clouds make a difference between clearing a T siege area vs throwing units into a meat grinder. The same can be said for the sentry as well. You can literally cut an army into 2 parts which allows you to fight smaller armies and gradually overwhelm them.
So in the case of banes, I can throw 20+ banes into a planetary which is supposedly not cost efficient. But depending on the state of the game, if that is the opponentâs last mining base, then I literally forced that person to do long distance mining (or maybe even lose most of his scvs along with the PF).
Yep. They still do quite a bit of micro sometimes though, like attempting to split the ones in front when they see a mine targeting the banes.
Stutter stepping is easy, but to pre-split or split while a set of banes rolling towards your bio ball (while being sandwiched with lings / banes behind) is an even higher skill level. All is fair haha. I think the game really rewards pro players if you make the effort to micro.
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