Make Nukes Great Again

In the recent Patches mod that is popular for the time being, there is an attempt at improving nukes by reducing their build time, cost, and casting time at the expense of less damage and a bigger red dot. I think this is a good attempt, but misses the boat in that using nukes is annoying with the current mechanics. In the original Command and Conquer (one of the first multiplayer RTS games) you would have nukes as the Brotherhood of Nod and an Ion Cannon as the Global Defense Initiative. The way these worked was that once you built the necessary infrastructure, the super weapon (nuke or ion cannon) would work like a Yamato Weapon for the Battlecruiser with a large cast time and then a significant cooldown time and you could only have one at a time and you didn’t have to think about paying money to restock the weapon, rather you just had to wait for the cooldown to finish after each use. You could also use the weapon anywhere on the map you had vision. The mechanics were roughly the same in sequels, but the user experience I feel was a lot better to Terran nukes fired by a Ghost.

I propose that since nukes are almost never used anyways, the following should happen regarding nukes:

(1) Command Centers can be turned into a new building called a nuclear silo (kind of like you had in Starcraft 1). Once built this nuclear silo would produce nukes on cooldown which might be once every 2 minutes for instance (it would need to be balanced through testing obviously).

(2) Like the Mothership, you can only have one nuclear silo at a time. There would be obvious balance concerns if you could produce multiple silos where the nukes don’t cost any gas or minerals, just like there would be big balance concerns with Motherships where you could recall and cloak your entire army multiple times in succession around the entire map.

(3) The casting range for the nuke without the aid of a spotter (Ghost) would be a radius maybe 50% wider than the detection range for a current sensor tower with the intent of this weapon being able to be used defensively without the aid of a Ghost. If the nuke is used beyond this range, you need to have a Ghost be used as a spotter just like you do now.

(4) Also, the time for the nuke to fall would be proportional to the distance of the nuclear silo. This means it would be quicker to launch and land near your base and take significantly longer to land (where you can kill the Ghost and interrupt the nuke). The idea of not needing a Ghost for a short range firing of the nuke is not necessary and just an idea, but the time to land should be variable depending on the distance of the silo from the target location.

(5) Finally, just like a Mothership is very expensive and costs a lot of supply, the same relative concerns should be applied to the Nuclear Silo in that an upgrade from a command center would cost just about as much and you probably should need a fusion core as a prerequisite rather than just a Ghost Academy. Rushing this weapon out should be a difficult journey through the tech-tree just like Mothership rushes are so you can’t just show up in someone’s base and nuke away in 5 minutes. You can do this right now with the current mechanics but it is impractical in a serious game because of the gas costs of ghosts, cloak research, the silos, and a requirement for an armory (which requires a factory first) to build the nuke.

As for giving Zerg some love so they don’t whine about potential attrition tactics with free nukes over a very long game, perhaps you could have a hive upgrade where you could farm/consume creep tumors for minerals (not gas). This way you couldn’t just starve a zerg out of existence as you camp your base and just do hit and run attacks to wither down the army while launching nukes. As for Protoss, maybe the Mothership could be given the Purifier back (commonly called the Planet Cracker in beta) with the idea this ability would not be instantly available upon building the mothership (i.e. the cooldown starts once it is built) and that the ability would have a very long cooldown. This ability would be analogous to the C&C Ion Cannon which was a lot of fun back in the days. I would replace time warp with this ability or else add it as a fourth ability since time warp is kind of a lame and not very fun ability as most debuff abilities are in SC2 such as anti-armor missile.

The reason I am posting this idea is that I think SC2 needs actual cool stuff in the next patch as the most recent patch has put the game on life support whether Blizzard wants to admit it or not. Again these are just ideas to spice the game up with more powerful and functionally easier to use strategic weapons/abilities that make you feel good when you use them. In spite of earlier versions of SC2 being famous for cheeses and imbalances, a recent criticism has been that the game has just been overbalanced so that everything is a soft counter and you don’t have the right balance powerful fun abilities that have hard counters. So Making Nukes Great Again (well they never were great to be honest) would be a good start.

Nuclear Launch detected!

I would scramble so much during the Sc1 days hearing that, but here in sc2, not so much.

I do not see where they are not powerful. They are exactly like they are supposed to be. In my opinion they are quite cheap compared to the damage dealt.

In campaigns they are considerate somehow “super weapons” of Mengsk but in normal competitive they are just another way / another tactic

Like Carriers and BC , in Movies (cut-scenes) are presented as “Capital” ships, 100x times larger than eg, a Viking/Phoenix, but actually in game they are comparable 3-4x_Vikings=1BC. Plus due to the cost players spam a lot of BC’s.

So I mentioned about BC + Carriers (not to derail but) to explain that this game does not have “super weapons” like I can compare with Red Alert 2 - Nuclear Missile / WeatherStorm / Psychic Dominator.

Thus Nukes in SC2 are good as they are now!
If they make “Super weapon” from them - sure Blizzard could, but also then:
1. increase Nuke’s cost
2. more important give Protoss and Zerg other similar “Super weapons”.

(like RA2 have for every allied faction the Weather Storm)

Sorry to say but that’s really a bad idea. Due to Physics.

If you for example spray someone with Toxic Gas or maybe Napalm (I am not military expert) then it is proportional to where the origin is - so how close the chopper / airplane is to the victims.

But a Nuke is a Nuke. Here on Earth or in SC2 is Exactly the same ! The blast radius is one thing - but where the SILO actually is, or the Launch point of origin - does not matter. Just you have more time to react maybe - but with modern & faster rockets that also not so important.

But what you partially meant - to have real super weapons - RA2 style - I would like to see in SC3 for example ! Also we could import some quotes from RA2 - “weather storm approaching” :slightly_smiling_face:

Wow, not again.
So you give Super Nuke to terran , and starve the Zerg?
Why not give them MULE’s like terran have?
Or just lower Zerg’s demand for Vespene.
Even then is not fair one Super Weapon vs Economical boost. Is hard to balance like this.

But if you think for SC3 - Zerg could have their own “Toxic Gas” or Acid super weapon.

Not your job to make that call, Cat. If you feel it violates policy, flag it an move on. Let those who are actually in charge of moderation deal with it.

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curious, how many times a day do you have to tell them this.

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Seeing Cat seemingly wants to annoy people and kill their rep like they do in other forums as well (and in game in WC3R), not many times more.

It will just be flagging, which if it gets the mods’ attention could turn out badly for them.

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*cross’s fingers*….. heres hopeing, lol

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Same

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lmao. when the forum mvp wishes you get banned, your obviously the problem.

The problem with this is directly the whole… setup.

In making the nuke not be dropped by a Ghost, you also make it so that players have a less clear way to defend against the nuke drop. That then mandates weirdness – you’ve put that on

The nuke is a defensive tool

At which point what the hell are we doing.

One of the best features of nukes is being able to throw them everywhere. Binding the player to only one nuke every 2 minutes kind of runs in the face of starcraft?

SC2 is a game about units and not a top-bar. This is fine and good –

SC2 just doesn’t do this thing. That’s fine and good, but it is why the premise feels a bit off to me.

The number one thing I hate about playing Protoss is only having one mothership. So I just. Don’t build one as long as possible when I play Protoss, because I like having interchangeable units. I simply don’t like having an only-one unit. It doesn’t feel logical, because it’s a unit. It’s not like WC3 where it’s “The One And Only Uther”; it’s not “Hero Paladin”, it’s. A unit. That was built or mutated. It might be expensive to construct, but all the things that are deadly are not a natural talent fistfighter. They’re not special – anyone can learn to fire a gun or fly a ship, any larva can become any creature.

Ah yes, the amount of time for the game ending blast to land between the announcement / splat visibility is a difficult to know or figure amount. Unless you made it announce the shot well into the process, but you’d still need it to have enough warning that players can respond to it. So, what, 7 seconds before the nuke lands? With that little time you may not even manage to find the target.

Sorry did you just include, in your argument

(1) Physics has relevance to the video game
(2) That ballistic trajectory time does not matter but then also say “you have more time to react”

like what.

You do understand that “more time to react” is literally the text equivalent of “time it takes for nuke to fall”. It is literally the speed of the projectile.

Summarily, what. Do you not comprehend what you typed? I seriously have concerns that you don’t, which is a problem because it means I do not know how to interact and convince you of things.

Converting energy back into minerals is a horrifying idea.

And that’s why nobody should get either (:

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I just want them to act their part. Just to stop being a problem causer everywhere they go.

Not to act as something that they are not. Posting offtopic, telling people what to do, telling people how to post, etc. All while pointing fingers at others when they do, which they often started.

“End of line”

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I meant that the travel time (i.e. casting time) is proportional to the distance, not the damage dealt or radius of the explosion actually changing.

ok travel time - can be - that’s a better idea
just (with modern rockets) + (1-5) gaming seconds is not too much.

I feel the same way, that’s why I had to back off, I felt like I was also being a problem, being pulled in… baited.

That’s not I come and check the forums, but when that started to be a reason, I had to check myself.

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