Hello, Platinum Zerg here, I am a casual player who got into Zerg because I love to swarm enemies, my favourite thing in Starcraft is when an army walks slightly too far onto my creep and I can set up a full Zergling/Baneling surround.
However in LotV power has been taken away from Zerg swarm units and giving to the Lurker. If you don’t know, the Lurker is a reskinned siege tank that Zergs get just before the late game.
Instead of surrounding your opponent and destroying them, Lurkers are suppose to en-mass burrow in front of an advancing army and scare away ground based attacks. Normally this forces a stalemate that allows the Zerg to mine out any bases they have obtained.
This tactic of forcing a stalemate and camping bases goes directly against the Zerg’s identity as a swarm race. Zerg’s should always be trading out units, forcing fights and patrolling their creep to keep the enemy away from the hive cluster. Not hiding behind a wall of lurkers like a Terran.
In the Lurker’s defence, I have seen a few fun uses for Lurkers that makes me wonder if there is some hope for the unit. Some pro players hold fire on unscouted Barrowed Lurkers to ambush foes, some even get amazing Lurker surrounds that box in an unsuspecting army and crush them. But far too often Lurkers are just used to slow the game down and turtle.
I kinda agree, but not with removing lurkers. Lurkers feel kinda weak to me tbh. I used to love using them in combination with nydus worms. They now require hive upgrades and they first require making hydras then morphing them into hydras and it ends up costing around 200 vespene which could be used just to make ultras. Plus they are much slower then they once were. Protoss and Terran in particular have plenty of good options to deal with them.
My solution would be to redesign them as a faster, but weaker unit that can burrow and unburrow faster and not require morphing hydras to make, but also hit weaker. I might even consider making the model smaller and have them be about the size of widow mines.
Oh does protoss have counters yeah? like what? Please elaborate how a protoss can break a turtling zerg 6/7 lurkers per base can be attacked.
Cuz all ive seen is trash tier air that can even touch lurkers. And once corruptor tech is out, all air of toss is nullified because protoss air actually needs time to build units one by one, and macro zergs can just insta build 20 corruptors.
Added to that vipers are still as oppresive as ever. Especially considering feedbcks are impossible to do with lurkers out.
Well. Protoss is kinda well known for their deadly skytoss builds. I mean where do I start? There is voids, phoenixs, carriers, tempests. A protoss could also go for base snipeing if someone is building too many lurkers and/or doesn’t have enough queens and spore crawlers depending expansions. They also have disruptors and high templar that can storm. I mean I suppose if someone is just massing zealots or stalkers lurkers could be a problem. They really don’t have a shortage of options.
As for the corruptors thing. Corruptors are armored and Protoss players almost always build some stargates. Voids can crush corruptors. Plus storms. Those can hit ground and air.
Sorry but you’re totally wrong about zerg. Zerg is not about swarming enemies all at once it’s about having a larger economy/more bases than the opponent which in turn allows you to out-maneuver your opponents. Lurkers help a lot against zerg opponents and also protoss and Terran for defending bases and moving around the map more safely. They help the zerg player get more bases.
Since you have more bases you can prepare for more things in the future i.e. you can drop a spire down even though you don’t plan on using air at the moment because it might come in handy later.
Zerg is about overwhelming your opponent but that doesn’t necessarily mean you use a huge army all at once to win.
Multiple smaller armies causing chaos all over, coming one after the other after the other, meanwhile you bring your lurkers in for extra aggression and end the game.
Corrupters are the strongest AA unit in the game so if zerg is going mass corrupters you have to tech switch as protoss. Protoss’ most powerful units are disrupters and colossus along with archons and immortals. Their air is strong but not as strong as corrupters.
Simply put, as a Terran or protoss you should not allow your zerg opponent to reach fully upgraded corrupters because if you do and you lose then you had it coming.
Are you really trying to argue the Zerg Swarm isn’t about Swarming? The clue is in the name and voice lines of neuralled units.
I believe what is confusing you is the difference between how the race is intended to play and how they achieved that intended play style. Zerg need more bases to compete with their rivals because they aren’t suppose to be able to sit in the corner of the map and win. Having more bases in turn makes it harder to defend at home, which means the Zerg have to take fights out on the map far more often.
Zerg Larva mechanic and the fact Zerg only having a single production building allow Zerg to quickly replace losses. Zerg can almost always create units as fast as they lose units because they are suppose to lose a decent amount of units in even a winning fight.
Zerg already have a mechanic that lets them control the map easier than the other two races, Creep. Creep works a lot better for Zerg for the purpose of reinforcing their very active playstyle than the Lurker as it provides Zerg with both Mobility and scouting information while the Lurker is relatively slow and takes time to ‘siege’.
Disruptor
These are all siege units that cause long stalemate where neither player can attack onto each other and instead relies on some weird tactics such as nukes or switching directly into air-compositions. So removing those should delete that boring turtle-siege scenarios and speed up pace of the late game a little bit.
Well, Liberators can definitely siege up and defend that first chokepoint out of the main or natural on either side of the map, but because Liberators target a specific, small area (instead of every direction like a siege tank) they are much worse at turtling anywhere else.
A moving opponent can usually force Terran to repeatedly siege/unsiege Liberators to keep them relevant, as it isn’t a good idea to leave a portion of your army targeting an area that the enemy isn’t even passing through.
I really don’t see Lurkers as a problem outside of PvZ. Both Terran and Zerg can both deal with Lurkers using air, Tanks, casters, and occasionally surrounds or flanking maneuvers respectively. The problem is Protoss.
The best Protoss ground option is Immortals, which may not work against a large enough group of Lurkers, or may be zoned by other units. Other Protoss units either lack the durability to get close to the Lurkers without getting slaughtered, or they lack the DPS and range to come out ahead.
I don’t think we should remove turtle siege units. I am sure plenty of people like using them, but the Turtle-Siege style is not what Zerg are about, the people who want to play that way will likely play one of the other 2 races.
Seriously, fix the lurker. Before the last patch I had a great ZvZ muta/ultra build that could beat turtle lurker/hydra. Now? No way in hell. Hydras are faster and ultras are smaller and get shredded by lurkers now. Every patch these morons make this game worse.
Veto neohumanity, Babylon and learn to use drops, not nydus as they can backfire massively against lurker players. Smaller ultras are a buff against lurkers not a nerf.
Lurkers are scattered in spore crawlers that are necessary to stop the mutas and any viper yoinks. Ultras used to get caught so badly by this set up that they no longer have an issue with. Learn to split and go for a surround… it’s really not a hard thing to do with ultras…
I can tell you dont play this game in masters. You do realize that the lurker/hydra player is going to be sitting behind the mass spore forest you just mentioned right…??? You need overseers to get vision but they die instantly. ZvZ muta/ultra is impossible right now. Let me guess, you played at my level years ago and now just sit on this forum complaining without really knowing the meta or how the units interact, correct?