The Ghost is not a good enough spellcaster to justify that, and neither is the Ravager for that matter.
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This again⌠even after all this time I hop into the forums and they are still saying protoss units suck. Doesnât matter how strong protoss are somehow their units still suck
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Yep, chronically allergic to being realistic and thatâs why they are debating on video game forums instead of going out into the real world. If they could, theyâd be applying their logical skills to making it rain, but they canât, and thatâs why they cry about protoss.
Seeing Reno again on the battlenet forums is a breath of relief. Too many crazies spouting nonsense and crying for buffs. Renoâs battles with the Platinum Protoss Patrol are now known only through legend inscribed on the blizzadariumâs walls. The tales of Reno will be told for a millennia the same as Hercules and Achiles and Persueus and Theseus and Odysseus.
Fun fact, I actually have the entire old forums archived. It was like 20 GB of data. I could index it, making it searchable by keyword and date, if I wanted to but havenât found a good reason to.
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They donât suck, theyâre just niche. Good at something while being awful at another. An army of specialists if you will.
I think thatâs why people look at Protoss and have strong feelings one way or another. Youâre dying to something that does itâs job really well but is justâŚnot very good at something else, if you had only gone that tech route - and if you did thereâs a chance you just outright win the game vs the Protoss player which can make them feel like Protoss is bad because their units have gigantic weaknesses as compensation for their insane strengths.
Creates hard feelings because players get build order losses more easily imo.
I am sure you could find a scenario where hellions beat battlecruisers â therefore, hellions arenât bad, theyâre just niche. Logic isnât strong with the platinum protoss patrol, unfortunately.
You are aware that is intended and how all units work. Every unit in this game tends to have a purpose. Also build order losses are something that exists for every race it becomes less common with a stricter meta but that also means outside of cheese the game is locked in.
The complaint coming from the protoss in that vein in a complaint about how RTSâs work on a fundamental level. The basis of which is a game where every unit does something specific and is designed to fill specific roles.
An example would be playing a game where mounted units are meta and complaining about being forced into spearman yeah it does kind of suck but that is the very nature of the game.
Honestly that would be zerg. From No other Race ive heard that XYZ unit sucks so often. Mutas, lurkers, banes, roaches, broodlord, ultralisk and Most famously the Hydra.
The 2 Units that get complained Most about are ultralisk and hyra. But funny enough they get build in every Game (If gets Long enough) and both Units are getting massed and Show immense strength.
- Iâm not plat
- I donât play Protoss exclusively
- Your logic is stupid
Hellions canât shoot up - and Hellions are FANTASTIC at roasting and kiting light units that canât get a surround. Hellions also arenât Protoss units so youâre just being a trollâŚyet again.
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Protoss double down on it, itâs why the protoss deathball was such a meme for such a long period of time. And itâs 100% intentional.
Duh? lol. I mean, this is how the game is supposed to work. Iâm not sure what your point here is.
Gold, then. 20 chars.
I keep seeing this being stated but when one bothers to look that just isnât the case. Which unit in particular does this? Because even the phoenix which was the supposed poster child of said argument has seen play in PvT. Which would mean that it isnât pigeonhold into being an anti muta weapon
If that is how the game is supposed to work then it is silly for the protoss to make that a central complaint. In fact it comes off as them not understanding how the game is supposed to work or them wanting to just do whatever they want and screw every other faction
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Eh, honestly pretty much only the adept and the colossus at this point. The Colossus, went from being an all-round murder-everything unit to being a slightly less all-round murder unit when they reduced its damage output slightly against armoured, but gave it a +light attack. The Adept is basically just a timing attack and thatâs all, though I think thereâs more potential for the adept in an army as well, but players havenât really looked at that at all soâŚ
Pretty much every other protoss unit is far, far less generalised these days than they used to be in WoL.
Zealots serve as a meat-wall, but theyâre also high damage units with a ton of HP and 1 natural base armour that doesnât really die to anything particularly easily that isnât a ton of splash damage while theyâre clumped up.
Stalkers got buffed so their damage output is way better than it used to be in WoL.
Immortals got barrier, making them much tankier against DPS units, which used to hard counter them.
HTâs Storm hasnât really changed but was always a solid splash option from WoL to LotV, and hasnât ever been weak. And while Feedback did get nerfed, itâs still a very strong ability that well and truly serves its purpose.
Archons are tanky and do splash damage, although theyâre short range. Better against Zerg (theyâre REALLY strong here because +bio damage) than Terran, but still have some use against terran as a meat-wall and as a viking deterrent to prevent them from flying over the army and obliterating colossus.
Void-ray and Oracle are both better than they were in HotS, while the Phoenix is basically untouched and still a great unit, particularly in larger numbers.
Carriers are Carriers. Theyâre anything but bad.
Tempests are Tempests. Long range, high burst damage units with good microability. While slightly flimsier, theyâre also arguably better units due to being less supply and more microable so you can get a lot more out of them. Oh, and they also have an upgrade for bonus to structures, which they didnât have in HotS.
DTs got DT Blink making them far more threatening and far more versatile; Blink allows them to jump in from just about anywhere and makes them an incredible late-game transition for murdering bases, rather than just an early cheese. Their high damage output and ability to gap-close also means that (mind you, not in pro play) you will very rarely see them as part of a chargelot army that will simply obliterate squishier armies.
And the Mothership is now a godly unit whoâs damage output is insane, and has 3 extremely strong spells. Itâs also seeing more play now than it ever has before.
Sentry got +shield damage, but remains the stalwart spell-caster itâs always been, though less effective against Roach styles specifically, due to the Ravagerâs existence. It also doesnât have to research Hallucination anymore like it does in WoL, so itâs a much more effective scouting tool in tandem with Energy Overcharge.
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The Phoenix was never a deathball unit. Colossus, Immortal, Disruptor, Carriers, etc, etc are all very deathball-y because without another unit to support their niche they get slammed by, for example Marauders stimming forward.
Protoss is designed around this, each unit is reliant on another to cover up itâs massive shortcomings.
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Dank Templar please. You donât have the qualifications to argue with God Reno.
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Except I do. Most people who play SC2 are extremely biased and I have a pretty good track record of being right even if it takes 2 years for others to catch on.
Hell, wanna know where DTs into Archon Drop came from? Me. I was doing it before pick up range existed.
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Half of what you said counters lurkers!
People donât even go anymore lurkers against Protoss in tournaments for long time, it has to be a very good timing or map, or something to even consider the Zerg to go lurkers against Protoss!
cristal kids nowdays " is too fast" " slow down game speed plz"
XD the mothership changed that dynamic for the past year. You are correct about most things but you never admitted that the mothership completely dunks on lurker based armies with just a ground based army.
Look how strong lurkers are vs protoss. XD
Yep. Imagine if all those corruptors had even a weak anti ground attack. That fight would be totally different.
Nah, I am pretty certain that if reynor had had hydras instead of lurkers he couldâve won that fight, especially if he included like 2 infestors and really slowed down the protossâ charge into the lurkers w/ fungal.
Lurkers are really bad but at the same time this is brain dead game play from reynor which isnât surprising since heâs an apm spammer.
Another good move that would auto win this fight is neural. You neural the front units and hold position them and it acts like a fungal but it also takes away some of their army supply.
Fungal is probably better because youâd need closer to 6 or 8 infestors for that move, and heâd just kill them with tempests. But then the counter move is to pull 8 immortals/archons into the lurkers, so thatâs pretty decent. You just couldnât hold the position since he has the range advantage. I dunno, maybe you could snipe tempests with a lunge (probably not).
Another benefit is that you can suicide an infestor and lock his high templar behind his army. If toss chooses to give up ground & delay, you could use microbial to reduce him picking away with the tempests.
OH another giga-screwup by the zerg is that he didnât sack the corruptors to take out detection. This is actually a fantastic scenario for parabomb because an F2 abuser will have all his observers with his army and they insta die to to parabomb. From there thereâs some oracles you have to kill. So yeah, zerg played like trash.
I tuned in at ~20 minutes so I didnât see the hydra+viper etc shenanigans but Reynor mentions half way through that the toss finally learnt how to split his army. At that point Reynor just wanted to send it, bait the archons into the main with the corruptors, get a good siege spot at the natural and then finish off the tempests. The move was slightly mistimed so -31 lurkers. Look at the minimap, Zerg lost the main and all the tech due to the mothership outmaneuvering Reynor.