List of odd things, suggested fixes

Why can a nydus worm exit be placed anywhere, for such a low cost?
Why can a creep tumour make a creep tumour?
Why is a Void Ray so fast?
Why can a Viper abduct massive units?
Why are Queens so tanky?
Why are Ghosts so good?
Why can Siege Tanks shoot so far?
Why is the Warp Prism busted?
Why can’t we zoom the camera out a bit during gameplay?
Why can new buildings be built so far away from the rest?

Here’s a controversial one: Why can units stay invisible in point blank range of the enemy? Can’t we at least attack ground with any unit to kill them?

How good would it be if Zergs queued units like Terran and Protoss, and attack units came out of their spawning pools, roach warren’s etc?

Warp prism pick-up and drop-off range: isn’t that just a spammable flash with extra steps? Thanks to Batz for pointing this one out.

These would all be pretty severe Zerg and Protoss nerfs, so to make it fair:

  • Reapers require a tech lab.
  • Siege Tanks range reduced from 13 to 11.
  • Ghost: Protoss shield removal amount capped to 45 per each enemy unit. Snipe damage reduced from 170 to 140.
  • Liberators require a tech lab.
  • Ravens can no longer disable massive units.

And finally, the big zerg nerf, Nydus Worm costs 10 extra minerals per each 1 range, each unit travels through it at 400% movespeed.

P.S How about Banelings don’t provide far vision when burrowed (like every other zerg unit) but now explode automatically on unit collision?

Also, here’s a couple of fun ones:

  • Queen: has the ‘light’ armor type (hellions and adepts are now scary)
  • Baneling: does 120 damage flat (Zergs would be nerfed if they had to produce units like other races do)
  • Bring the Scourge from Brood War into the game.

Oh, answerable questions! What a rarity.

Why can a nydus worm exit be placed anywhere, for such a low cost?

Because it creates an interesting dynamic of actually requiring a player to pay attention to the map or risk the enemy being better able to ping-pong back and forth with their strong units.

This, however, is balanced out by the fact that most of the time, Zerg units trade less efficiently, because they’re generally given stats that favor speediness over trade quality. Consider additionally how Zerg can expand faster than the other races but it’s not super oppressive while at what objectively is an economic advantage.

Why can a creep tumour make a creep tumour?

Presumably because the Queen is too slow and needs to be at home to defend the Zerg structures, whereas the other races’ “free vision” abilities aren’t anchored to the unit in any capacity.
Sentry Hallucinations can just zip past a lot for most of the game; the Oracle’s super mobile so its Revelation can easily scan around a large amount of distance.
The Orbital Command’s scanner sweep is global range and has a large area, the Sensor Tower’s radius is immense and very useful.

I don’t think this holds much weight personally, since the other “free” vision abilities are either temporary or immobile whereas the Creep Tumor is both things, I’d personally like it if it could only spread once

Why is a Void Ray so fast?

Because when it was slower it was bad. The only reason the Void Ray was so strong from Aug 2020 to Mar 2022, was because they triple buffed it in a single patch and then stopped patching. Before 5.0.2 the Vooid Ray was barely used and I’ve certainly noticed significant fall-off in its use

Why can a Viper abduct massive units?

You know, this is a question that I don’t have an actual direct answer to. The only thing I can really think of

Why are Queens so tanky?

Because the unit is a crutch to solve other issues inherent to playing a “reactionary race” and how Zerg’s drones cost the same larva as other units. You can’t build other units too early on in the game.

Why are Ghosts so good?

They’re expensive, not tanky, slow to produce, and are involved spellcasters, requiring significant micro to use effectively. It’d be pretty disappointing if they weren’t good and I barely play Terran because I think Marines are dumb.

Why can Siege Tanks shoot so far?

So that they can claim and deny an area effectively while being immobile. It’s a reasonable trade off - Mobility for safety and the ability to be caught unawares.

Why is the Warp Prism busted?

It’s not. Every transport has some cool thing that makes it not just an “elevator”; the Medivac gets a heal beam and boost, the Dropperlord is super cheap (125/25) and something you “always have”, the Warp Prism can pick up at range and deploy pylon power.

Why can’t we zoom the camera out a bit during gameplay?

Because then having a larger monitor would provide a significant competitive advantage as you would become able to see more of the battlefield while still being able to select individual units.

Why can new buildings be built so far away from the rest?

Why not? You can build a house 10 miles or 10,000 miles from the nearest house. The hard part is always just getting the resources there, but we abstract that because that’s not actually particularly interesting or fun and makes things a pain. It’s more interesting if you have the ability to do more things. Making rules in the “you can’t do that” vein easily makes players just feel like they’re not able to do a cool thing.

Why can units stay invisible in point blank range of the enemy?
Can’t we at least attack ground with any unit to kill them?

Because then Cloaking abilities would be really bad. All the units with native cloaking - Ghost, Banshee, Observers, Dark Templar - pay a massive premium for it elsewhere in their stat block.

How good would it be if Zergs queued units like Terran and Protoss, and attack units came out of their spawning pools, roach warren’s etc?

Boring and lame - this is part of what defines Zerg as functioning differently from the other races. It’s really exciting to have different production methods.

Warp prism pick-up and drop-off range: isn’t that just a spammable flash with extra steps?

What’s the … point of this comment. It’s not odd nor something to “fix”. This was an intentional addition to the game because it creates cool things.

Thanks to Batz for pointing this one out.

No, don’t do that. Have your own opinions. Batz’s are pretty bad.

These would all be pretty severe Zerg and Protoss nerfs, so to make it fair:

… Warp Prism pick up range is very cool and useful, but it is not particularly vital to a proper Protoss game plan besides early all-ins, not dissimilar to the Void Ray

Reapers require a tech lab.

This would delete the unit from the game. People only really build the unit now because they can build it very early to scout, if it required a Tech Lab people would just as soon research Stim or Combat Shields.

Siege Tanks range reduced from 13 to 11.

Reducing the area covered by a tank from 531 to 380 is far more of a nerf than you think it is.

Ghost: Protoss shield removal amount capped to 45 per each enemy unit. Snipe damage reduced from 170 to 140.

Reducing the shield damage from 100 to 45 makes the spell almost useless against a lot of targets that Terran struggles with otherwise. I do think EMP needs a nerf but most of your recommended changes here aren’t to the units that EMP is a useful tool against.

Nerfing Steady Targeting to 140, though, doesn’t affect much - the Viper, Swarm Host, Queen, and Ultralisk are the ones who’d appreciate this change. For the Viper, it’d lose its last vitals too fast, the Ultralisk is “worth” sniping a fourth time, and its purpose is to just absorb the damage anyway.

Liberators require a tech lab.

god i’d love this

But it’s not particularly helpful.

Ravens can no longer disable massive units.

In TvP, this is basically a third of its functionality. It disables Archons and problematic skytoss targets. If you nerf EMP to the ground, this is basically a nonstarter because it removes Terran’s main answers to these threats.

And finally, the big zerg nerf, Nydus Worm costs 10 extra minerals per each 1 range, each unit travels through it at 400% movespeed.

Tracking the start/end and travel location of each unit in a Worm, when the point of the Network is that you can, uh, go between any of them, means that you’d basically have to make a new map “layer” for the Nydus.

P.S How about Banelings don’t provide far vision when burrowed (like every other zerg unit) but now explode automatically on unit collision?

The Baneling’s sight range while burrowed is compensation for it becoming defenseless when burrowed; I’d argue. I think it’s more silly that they can detonate without unburrowing.

But by “on unit collision”, you mean like; you move command them and they start blowing up from touching an enemy unit? That’d be horrible and basically remove all agency from a player trying to use Banelings, which are already difficult to get much done with due to their mediocre 2.2 explosion range, squishiness, and price.

Queen: has the ‘light’ armor type (hellions and adepts are now scary)

Nope, absolutely not, you’d ruin ZvZ.

Baneling: does 120 damage flat

No. I cannot express how much no.

(Zergs would be nerfed if they had to produce units like other races do)

And this is why you shouldn’t do it. You’d have to redesign the whole race from the ground up if you wanted it to use “normal” unit production, and you’d be removing a cool and unique difference for no benefit.

Bring the Scourge from Brood War into the game.

It was not brought back for a reason. We do not need it.

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so in your fantasy zerg now needs to use energy fore every tumor preventing him from injecting or having creep spread, meaning he can no longer produce units or build buildings besides from his initial hatchery spread?

because they move like molasses

fair question , terran needs a big update.

yeah. really. it is ridiculous, especially in the late game, needs zoom.

good point, especially widows, & ghost.

that would be a fundamental change to how zerg has functioned for over 20 years. it would be VERY nice, though, if we did HAVE some buildings that “could ALSO produce units”
so our hatchery does make units, but, say the ultralisks really come from the ultralisk structure. this would absolutely allow zerg to begin adding on multiple ultralisk den or Spire to be producing additional fliers or Heavy units while hatchery is producing other units like zerglings hydras roaches and drones.

great idea

amazing Idea! we need more anti air besides corruptor queen/hydra & spore crawlers

how about widows also do not provide far vision when burrowed. and how about widows die when they explode too.

this doesnt sound fun at all, so you think my queens which are meant to defend me from hellion & adept harass, should be countered by hellion & adepts? they melt zerglings. roaches cant catch them. I now Need Roaches on gaurd at every expansion, or need wall offs at every one.

this is getting into the land of fantasy where zerg is not physically capable of what you seem to be proposing. in the end this would be furthering the current problem making terran even more overpowered than it currently is.

the reason terran is so overpowered it seems is because terran players seem to come onto the forums and make suggestions without fully thinking any of them through, and downtalk rebuttle any other suggestions they see that would otherwise negetively impact terran.

you had enough things to say about me suggesting, terran marine range -1 and add upgrade to increase range by 1.
a typical form of balancing done to nearly every unit at some time or another.
I’m also suggesting siege tank (in siege mode) range by reduced by 1 and to add an upgrade for siege tank range +1

suggesting orbital be split up into two different buildings has been the most dramatic idea i suggested, and compared to you trying to change the very nature of how zerg functions, change the nature of how nydus worms function, and suggesting unique mechanics be implemented into banelings vision?

you’ve also just made a blanket statement down talking warp prisms but haven’t actually made any kind of statement to follow it up.

I found two things to argue in this post. Firstly, adding a travel time to Nydus Worm would NOT require a new map layer. The units would just be in limbo for a certain amount of time, so essentially out of the game for 3 seconds, or whatever.

The other argument was the siege tank range. The tank is likely to have targets in one direction, two at most, so counting the whole radius of lost range greatly exaggerates the nerf.

I wouldn’t call that “mediocre” when it is also their splash radius (meaning everything within that range gets hit at once). The splash radius itself is one of the largest in the game (second only to Parasitic Bomb and Fungal). Otherwise, I agree with most of your points.

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No, with the number of calculations needed for that, it would effectively be a new map layer.

It is no exaggeration to measure an immobile unit’s “coverage” by its range in all directions. This is not only important for units coming straight at the Tank, but it is also extremely important for units trying to side-step it or skirt around it.

Widow Mines and Liberator targeting zones (the zone, not the maximum range) have a similar issue. You cannot really reduce their effective range without rendering them near useless, because the opponent could get around them far too easily for the cost and supply invested in them.

“No, with the number of calculations needed for that, it would effectively be a new map layer.”

No? You would just calculate one point to another, and add the travel time. It’s the exact same as pathfinding algorithm.

The way the Nydus is implemented has no concept of distance between the canals or that they’re even different. It’s a linked transport. In order to make units take an amount of time to “get” to a specific exit from an entrance, you’d have to implement some mechanism that says “This unit came from here and is going to there”.

If you want that to scale with the distance between the two locations and also the movement speed of the unit; you need some way to track that that doesn’t currently exist. You don’t have to implement this as an actual map layer, of course; but you need to track a number of new variables; and the current system is very simply “You put unit in Nydus” like it’s any normal transport, and “All Nydus have the same units carried.”

Particularly it also means you’d need to have units enter a worm, then keep track of - for example - that Zergling 1 came into the 7 o’clock worm but Zergling 12 came into the 3 o’clock worm so if you tell the worm to unload Zergling 12 it needs to get out faster than if Zergling 1 is unloaded.
With the way the system works, units unload in the order they occupy the transport. So the 1st unit in is the 1st unit out in most situations.

And that’s really bad - I obviously always want to unload Zergling 12 because I want to get a unit presence there as soon as possible. It’s just a lot of moments for it to suck horribly and be no fun at all with the way that the Nydus interface functions.

If “entering a Nydus worm” was changed to something that took time, like; “When you right click the Nydus, that unit isn’t able to be dropped off for 5 seconds”, I think that’d work well.

But it being dynamic would be a gigantic pain and create a huge burden of mind when trying to figure out how to place units down; and that’d just be awful because it would be this weird optimization that makes using a tool’s various modes – one that’s already not used very much! – be even more frustrating.

“One direction” covers how many degrees - In a lot of maps, you put tanks near two openings, covering close to if not more than 180 degrees of space - sure, some section of that is a cliff, but you can shoot over the cliff, too, if you position well.
The nerf reduces the tank’s zone of control by almost 30%; twice the range reduction of 15% - and that’s what matters when it comes to how the Tank holds a space.
They also… absolutely do end up getting sieged in positions where they can shoot all around them - not the most common thing, but a very important one.

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If you look at the Nydus Worm from a competitive PvP point, having travel time based on each units speed is highly favourable, it makes things more logical and realistic. That ultralisk SHOULD take more time than a zergling.

I think it would be pretty easy to implement, you don’t even have to physically move the unit, it just becomes invisible for the duration of the travel.

“Highly favorable,” when it makes the game more complicated and annoying to play, when it either invalidates or doesn’t change the primary way a thing is currently used?

I extremely disagree.

To wit, the main way a Nydus currently gets used is to send a bunch of units from a main base to the other main base. If the units can’t “start travelling” before the worm erupts, then it’s basically useless because they’ll get stranded immediately because the worm will get killed instantly most of the time. If they can travel before being able to exit, then they’ll pop out at the same time and nothing is different.

The secondary way it gets used, which bears repeating is extremely rare, is to move units between bases. This would become a painful experience if you had to track the “from” and “to” of each entrance to the Nydus.

I think it would be pretty easy to implement, you don’t even have to physically move the unit, it just becomes invisible for the duration of the travel.

To an extent, this is adding a layer. A behavior that means “in Nydus”; unable to do anything but travel. It’s a good and clean solution to the variety of issues with tracking the “from” and “to” worms …

But a unit that gets loaded into a Nydus can come out of any Nydus. And you can choose which Nydus it’ll come out of at any time. And how do I decide where it’ll end up? Presently, I tell the Nydus to start unloading.

If the units don’t start travelling to the destination until after they’re told their destination, they’ll take forever to get there even with 4x speed - for the extreme of the practical examples, the flying distance between the mains on a lot of maps is over 100 units, so even a Zergling would take at least 12 real seconds to get there.

But if the unit travels automatically, it can also end up farther from the Nydus you want it to come out of; which would also suck.

If we had SC1 Nydus Canals, where each entrance and exit was a two-way link and not “all entrances connect to all exits”, then this would work well, but that’s just not how the worms work, and I can’t envision a solution that is intuitive and doesn’t add frustration.

Because I don’t need logic or realism, I need ease of use, because there are already a hundred things vying for my attention during a match.

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I’ll say that it is fine to invalidate or nerf certain tactics if they are deemed bad for the game, such as the reaper nerf, which invalidated a strategy many people didn’t like playing against.

Now, if the worm is destroyed with units inside it, they could be sent back to the original worm.

With multiple worms, maybe there should be one entry per exit.

I will reply without reading the whole discussion because it’s quite long.

I agree with the Nydus Worm being out of control as it is now.

The way I figure it works is that it’s a massive unit being unleashed. However, at 75/75 and 14s, these are ridiculous figures for the sheer size and concept. It should be more like between 200/200 and 36s all the way up to 400/300 and 64s if adding more HP.

I also agree with your pointing out to a lot of Terran nerfing. Whatever the specifics Blizzard might come up with, I believe Terran has way too much viable arsenal and play styles that work, and I agree it should be toned down (either in power or availability, and especially against Protoss).

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Yes, I should clarify that I still believe that Terran is the weakest race overall, and it is shortsighted to only look at Tournament results, because nearly double the amount of people play Terran.

I want to nerf only the most abusive of strats, like cannon rushing, nydus worm obviously. In particular, I think siege tanks are fine, if anything, bring back siege tank research from Brood War.

Nydus worms are perfectly fine. Only if you have a relatively immobile force do they become a problem (too many siege tanks/thors) in which case they work as intended

Why do burrowed units take full damage from attacks, especially nukes? After all, the burrowed units are under enough rock/earth that they cannot be spotted at all. There should be some kind of damage reduction, especially for splash damage. Maybe something on the order of 10% reduction in direct attack damage, and 25-33% damage reduction from splash, and up to 50% reduction from nuke damage.

This would make roaches, lurkers, and infestors more viable against siege tanks and storms, etc. Rooted objects spines, WM, etc would not be eligible.

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Because they don’t need that extra durability. Also, you might have to reduce the net health of some Zerg units (especially Lurkers and units that can burrow move) in order to balance such a mechanic.

The whole idea was to give some benefit other than concealment to the burrow mechanic, and open up more play options vs the massive splash damage that wrecks the Zerg, as well as making roaches more valuable in the late game.

Example: focus-fire the underground roaches from the left, or the ling/bane mass from the right against a defensive line?

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