Lets be Honest, Protoss needs Help

General Discussion
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I’ve always been a Protoss/Terran fan but with the recent Performance and the kind of games we’re seeing especially for PvZ, Protoss feels like it has a P-250 while Zerg has an Ak-47/Sg553/Awp with grenades and kelvar. It really feels like 70:30 in favor of Zerg. To elaborate i don’t even think Zerg is OP anymore, the TvZ matchup looks pretty even with Terran now having a lategame that can challenge Zerg. But Protoss T3 just sucks.

What needs to happen is the PvZ matchup needs to shift towards a defensive macro style rather than relying on gambles to catch the Zerg off guard with unorthodox builds. Like the mindset that toss players needs is safety and confidence in late game where they can say “hey lets just sit back macro up and lets take a good fight in late game and win from there” but right now that thought never crosses any of the Protoss players since you’re handicapping yourself if you go to late game. This issue of late game toss being garbage also is seen in PvT where its an uphill battle to fight ghost lib with tempest being absolute garbage.

Furthermore in the PvZ matchup with chargelots not doing any damage, roach ravager has become increasingly powerful and i also think Ravagers are low key overpowered here. To conclude, I think its not that Zerg is OP its just that Protoss just sucks and thats : (

Edit: With the recent Homestorycup results we could really see 0 protoss at quarter finals, if this isn’t enough evidence to tell that something is wrong I don’t know what is

Edit2: Nice 0 Protoss at the Ro8, courtesy to Protoss for lending the victories in ZvP that aren’t even close. 6 Zergs in the quarterfinals as well… God I hope the community realise that something is wrong my heart my soul goes out to all toss fans cos this is just absymal at the moment. God my heart hurts man.

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Stay at home story cup saw 3 protoss move on out of 11

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Stay at home story cup saw the highest rated Toss player in the world, Zest, get knocked out on the first day, in group stages, because he went 0-2, losing to Elazer and Namshar.

6 out of 9 Terrans advanced. Z vs P is so Zerg favored at the highest level that not a single Toss in the world is favored to get out of their group, as long as any professional Zerg players are in the group.

You’d think… maybe showtime could be favored, but he loses every game to swarm hosts. Then you think… hmm… maybe Neeb, but he’s not that great versus cheese.

There’s a real chance that zero Toss players will make the playoffs (final 8). And, to be honest… that’s how it should always be given the current state of the game. There’s a reason zero Toss players are usually ranked within the top 10 on aligulac. The only reason Toss players advance in tournaments is usually due to Zergs knocking each other out.

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In all honesty, neeb is the only toss who stands a chance to go to the playoffs, and I doubt it cuz his group is Serral, Elazer, and HeroMarine

Edit: Actually, MaNa’s group is pretty good for him

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With they way it looks it seems that there will be 1 or 0 Protoss at the quarters of homestory cup and all the matches will be TvZ’s, while TvZ at the moment is good and fair the inner toss in me just cries out.

PvT seems very knife edge in balance but Terran is clearly favored in late game. EMP is also kinda OP at times being able to shave 500hp worth of sheilds by just 2 emps is kinda insane.

If I were blizzard I would remove nydus swarmhost and cannon rushes actually. I don’t like to watch these 2 strats.

What i would change for Protoss is:

1, Zealot charge now deals 2 damage with +2 for each attack upgrade with the speed reverted to 2019 ofc.

2, Cannons can only be built within 20 range of a Nexus.

3,Force feilds will take 2 biles to destroy.

4, Immortal base damage increased from 20+2 to 30+3 with same damage against armored. (This might be excessive buff against ravagers really PvZ is ridiculous at the moment.)

5, Experimental change: Colossus has a 2nd mode where can shoot vertical direction perpendicular to where it shoots now makes it better against banes/zerglings I think got this from ShoWTimE stream.

6, Voidray base armor increased from 0 to 1 Flux vanes also grants voids +25 sheilds.

7,Tempest can now shoot on move like a giant Phoenix and AA damage increased from 30 to 40 with same damage vs massive. To balance this hp changed from 200/100 to 125/150, AA range reduced from 14 to 12. Furthermore a new upgrade is found on the fleet beacon “disintegration” cost 100/100 cooldown based ability 45 second cooldown. It can only target buildings and does 500 damage to static defence while doing 300 to everything else in over 25 seconds, This is mostly to prevent mass spores.

8, Mothership:
Base armor increased from 2 to 4, hp changed from 350/350 to 400/300. Remove Massive tag, add new ability nexus overcharge,75 Mana. The changes to the Mothership is to make it not so deathball ish by making abductabe but removing massive tag makes it be able to escape Corruptors sometimes. Edit: Also I would like to make Motherships a detector as well

9,High Templar:
Feedback range increased from 9 to 10, damage increased to 0.75/1 mana.

Like sure some of these changes might make Toss OP but man protoss will have options and its more fun i think.

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Bruh, this is so sad.

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I’m pretty sure most Toss player would vote to remove cannon rushing, at least in its current form. The other races, especially Zerg… their vote goes without saying.

Everyone knows cannon rushing is the most rage inducing strategy in the game and probably the only imbalanced strategy Toss has had in many years. Not changing cannon rushing is akin to catering to psychopaths (cannon rushers who get kicks from making others hate life). They’re legit relishing the game being less enjoyable to play by doing nothing.

There is no logic to it. More people would play the game if cannon rushing wasn’t as obnoxious or unfair as it is. Balance would in no way be affected negatively. To make it more sad, everyone knows… you simply need to make a forge require a gateway. When the balance team gets fired… I hope they don’t have a shocked, dumb look on their face, at least.

Nydus. It feels like an attempt to take away every unique advantage Toss has and just give the same ability to Zerg cause… winning every game sounds awesome… if you play Zerg…

What is nydus, really? It’s offensive recall and defensive recall. It’s giving Zerg “warp hatch,” basically. Whether a person likes creep or not, at least you can agree it’s a unique advantage.

I thought nydus in BW was fine and good enough. I thought the nydus in WoL was probably the most well designed thing in the game. These guys are just dishonest and biased Zerg fan boys. They said their goal with the nydus was for it to only be used for reinforcements, not all-ins.

In other words, they said they wanted the nydus to be used as a pylon that you warp in units at. Yet, the nydus was invincible, previously… and then they made it require “your whole army” to kill it, after saying they don’t want it to be used for all-ins. How much HP does a reinforcement pylon need? How much should one have if I can put one in your base at anytime?

tl;dr every Zerg unit/idea seems bad when they either over buff everything for NO REASON or leave Toss crippled. Let Toss be armed with more than pebbles and a lot of problems would cease to be.

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Just give the colossus 12 +3 light damage and let it benefit from air armor when hit by AA attacks

Also let the adept hit air and get +1 range with resonating glaives

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Total disgrace, even with horrendous ping. Imbalanced eras have always been indicated by low level foreign players becoming competitive with much better Korean pros. Bly, Namshar, Elazer…all prominent examples right now.

PvZ is slightly improved by the Infestor nerf, but Zerg has so many other good tools that just crush Protoss compositions. This is consistently the worst matchup in SC2 at the moment.

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Yep. Before the liberator saw its “100th nerf,” Zest was getting knocked out of tournaments by the Sempers of the world (Canadian Terran). Unfortunately, balance does matter that much and, furthermore, it has a history of being that out of wack.

The game just needs a lot more focus on common sense and less focus on fan boying, aka “omg what did my favorite Terran Heromarine cry about after winning his 10th tournament in a row!? I must nerf it to appease my god.”

Just think about how many units seem strong to you, between the races.

Zerg: queen, viper, broodlord, swarmhosts. I think there’s more than that… but just going to name what most can agree to.

Terran: Liberators, ghosts, BCs, thors. Everything seems extremely viable, at worse. I personally think vikings are one of the most OP units in the game, it’s just the situation to mass them usually only arises in T vs T. The infamous viking wars don’t exist for no reason.

Toss: disruptors.

I like DTs and feel they should probably be included, but no matter how you score things… it doesn’t take much thinking to realize that Toss’ results add up and it has nothing to do with “every Toss player just being less skilled.” You can only build what your tools allow for.

I feel like better anti air would go a long ways.

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for me: just give zealot +2 charge dmg after the charge upgrade- and give adapts some buff so they not super garbage vs banes and roaches!

Nerf Queen somehow, so they not so unbelivalbal good vs oracals and libs/benshees/warp prisms - mby nerf there attack anti air

Sentrys sould be buffed somehow (dunno what kind)

Overlord scouting spot for the naturals should be all removed- its basicly free maphacking without any ressauces use

Colossi need some buff vs bsiclly everything!

Emp nerf or feedback buff for templar( helps in lategame too vs zerg viper and infestor

Tempest buff for lategame ( tempest totally trash)

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One way would be to have an upgrade where the Hallucination fools the AI even when the Hallu is revealed. So Hallu will take the damage and won’t be ignored. This would help Protoss army to soak some damage from their opponents.

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ZvP is just silly atm. Protoss and T both needs something to deal with SH, but T can at least minimise dmg somewhat even if it forces them to stay at home till maxed and just take it.

P? If you dont go kill Z after first wave, you are dead. There is no lifting bases or PF+10 hellbats that could save protoss base from few locust sweeping down and DPSing it down. Each wave after third is lost army or base.

And let us not talk about all other P strats that were nerfewd for no other reason that they worked -.- Where was “Let meta settle” when immortal timings worked last year.

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Oh no! Best protoss in korea loses to third best Zerg in EU! The outrage!

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Best Protoss in the world loses to a guy who is still trying to learn the fundamentals of macro and tries to resist making a hive, despite it unlocking units far stronger than anything Toss has. Aka, can’t macro and isn’t very smart.

As for Namshar… a guy Zest just lost 0-2 against… Who the f even knows enough about Namshar to even comment? He plays Zerg is all we can say. I’m sure he’s good. But, last time I checked I’ve never seen Namshar far in a tournament. I haven’t even seen him outside of watching Parting’s stream and seeing him play vs Namshar on ladder.

Zest, on the other hand, pretty sure he was the best player in the world at one point. You know, waaaaaay back in the day when the balance team made the “mistake” of allowing that.

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To be honest, I think you are a little bit too harsh on Elazer. He can be good sometimes but bly or Namshar ? These 2 don’t really stand a chance if it was an even matchup. Well Bly is bly and he beats people like Zest or Trap with all ins or cheeses it seems. Or relies on abusive strats like Swarm host nydus, which I think is still insanely overpowered on maps like golden wall. He tries to pull off the same tricks against Terran but usually fails.

If anything its not that all ins don’t work against Terran if your Zerg, its that all ins seem to be a lot easier to pull off against Protoss, Hence why i call for the immortal base damage to be buffed to 30. Against Terran you actually have to be good in starcraft in order to make an all in work. This is the conclusion in my estimation.

As for Namshar, he said that he’s comfortable in late game. Ahh sure he is against toss cos anyone with a brain knows late game is not a fair fight for toss. But against Terran late game ? ,I’m not sure he stands a chance against someone decent.

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Blizz needs to buff zealot damage by 50 percent and make carrier interceptors free. SEE; I AM DRINKING THE KOOLAID. I AM WITH THE PROGRAM GUYZZ!

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I watched the Zest vs Namshar game and at game 1 Eternal empire when Zest attacked the 4th base if chargelots do 8 damage on impact, Namshar would be in big trouble but instead the Zealots fails to kill anything and zest lost his entire army and the game is over from there, who would have known that removing +8 damage on impact would F up the pvz matchup eh ?

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I didn’t watch, but I’m happy the zealot was nerfed in that matchup. Anytime a basic unit is good, people just try to do all-ins centered around them.

For example, P vs Z was even worse to play macro games in HotS, but the balance team was able to act like they did a good job and nothing needed to be buffed because immortal, sentry all-in was good.

As long as an all-in can win at a high frequency, macro players have no hope of ever winning again. All that said, who am I kidding… the balance team is on a milk carton atm, and even if they weren’t… they’re the Bronze leaguers of balancing.

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Lets forget every terran have to All in every game vs Toss otherwise its a straight up loss in macro game

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