Late game unit buffs

Yeah, I know there won’t be any updates anytime soon, but I just feel like the late-game army are being rekted by mid-game army these day. So I thought the buffs below may be interesting:

Protoss

  • mothership: turn time-warp into acceleration fields

Terran

  • BC: upgrade to give Yamato +60 damage (pointless in early game)
  • banshee: upgrade to give +2 range (against disruptors)

Zerg

  • broodlord: +1 range
  • ultra: +100 HP
  • shroud: block 80% air damage (including yamato)
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I like the idea for all the changes.

If upgrades have reasonably long research time, sounds okay for me.

I actually played one Russian PvT recently. The Russian guy had very strong 2-base push: marines, siege tanks, bunkers and cloak banshees.
So I suspect banshee range would make the unit actually more considered in the late game. But the upgrade must be so delayed in the tech tree (fusion core + reasonably long time?) so it isn’t picked instead of cloak technology.
Early/Mid game banshees that outrange everything would be disaster :smiley:

Abouts Zergs, I’d say 100 HP for Ultra in a form of upgrade. They are already strong enough to be successfully used. It is definitely not a dead point in Zerg’s tree.

No comment on Brood Lord and Infestor.

About BC, well. They nerfed it on purpose in order not to one-hit Void Rays. But with Void decreased cost now… I don’t know.
They already say mass BCs are very strong in TvP vs Protoss, if you can afford to get them. After all, they roll over Tempests which are supposed to be a counter.
I’d say it’s safer not to touch the unit. It already seem to be strong.

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BCs aren’t made because they’re too hard to get into, not that they’re weak as a unit composition. The transition requiring more money won’t change this dynamic at all.

Useless.

Probably fine, but Zerg is still the dominant race in the lategame. Some people would argue that Toss is, I guess, but the issue seems to be with Skytoss. Either way, I won’t say anything definitive on a MU I rarely play.

Only change that seems interesting. Not a fan of making Zerg any stronger in the lategame but air compositions are stupid and microbial isn’t the most powerful spell anyway.

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Not really useful, chargelots are already fast, and if the spell affects the enemy it will help them more than being useful to protoss because Z and T would engage faster and move out of storms and disruptors easily.

I don’t like buffing those kind of lategame air units, these buffs promote deathballs.

Would be useful, but not against disruptors, phoenix , blink, tempest can deal with it.

Could be acceptable, same range as Thor, and Blord in zvp is kinda underused since most styles seems to skip them in favour of more mobility and more corrupt-viper based sky.

Not necessary I think, just make the ultras walk over/displace lings/units.

Would be still a bad change, the danger that comes from that spell is that you need to sit on the cloud, meaning you can get storms, surrounds, disruptors, and every kind of damage that comes from ground units. The spell should be reworked and make that units gets less damage from any source, or the same as raven missile decreases armor, the cloud could give a bonus armor buff to those units being hit by the aoe.

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  • BC: upgrade to give Yamato +60 damage (pointless in early game)

Why? You do realize that they would one shot Void Rays, a unit that BCs with Yamato already counter despite VR being the “hard counter”

That is a minor example of why I think it is a bad idea since VR and BC both arent really built in top level PvT for the most part but there is definitely more examples. The better question is the purpose? BC will still be useless late game in TvZ, Zerg casters simply counter them too hard especially when paired with corruptors.

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It’s currently a bad idea to buff Yamato Cannons against Protoss.

Protoss currently lacks units that can trade effectively against mass Battlecruisers in the late-game (although games rarely reach that point), and rebuffing Yamato Cannons to one-shot both Tempests and Void Rays would only make this problem worse. Frankly, there are a lot of Protoss units that need to be reworked or replaced including both Void Rays and Tempests.

Just to clarify: Does this range increase only apply when targeting Disruptors, or does it apply against other units?

Eight range Banshees would be oppressive against both ground-to-air units and turrets based on their mobility and cloaking; so a straight range buff would just be ridiculous.

It technically might not cause problems if such a range increase only applied to Disruptors and Siege Tanks; but that would still be a bad change because it is arbitrary.

Do you want 12 range Thors? Because Thors would likely be buffed to 12 range to compensate for that unnecessary buff. It is better to leave the Brood Lord as is.

Ultralisks are not weak. They just have pathing issues in large numbers or near tight spaces; so you don’t want to use more than a small amount in one place at one time.

This is stupid.

Microbial Shroud already blocks 80% damage from many air units because it applies before armor. The damage reduction is not the reason why the ability is underused.

The real reason why microbial shroud is underused is because Zerg has better or more intuitive alternatives (Vipers + Corruptors, etc), and because Microbial Shroud itself performs best under a weird use case. Hydralisks are most vulnerable to splash damage, not air units; so Microbial Shroud is actually better for protecting other ground units from air harassment or during a dive under the enemy’s air army in an attempt to take out its ground support than it is for assisting Hydralisks.

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Yeah, I guess I tend to agree with that. But if there is incentive to build fusion core for other upgrades though (like the +2 for banshee), it would indirectly increase the presence of BCs in the late game. Once you get fusion core, might as well build some BCs.

But it would make skytoss much more mobile in term of kiting. I still think this change has a lot of potential as compare to the current version, where you cast them when you know your mothership is going to die.

Would like still be true if the upgrade is in fusion core though?

The current role of ultra is just to snipe HTs. Just feel like they should survive longer (and the path issue has never been solved, oddly enough).

Yeah, BCs are in an awkward situation in that 1 Yamato is too strong, yet 2 Yamato is too weak that no one actually bother.

Yeah, BCs don’t seem to serve a purpose in late game, oddly enough.

But holy crap, balancing the game to the current state is one hell of a task. Some random small tweak in number may just throw the game completely off.

You’d think that, but we already have that situation for liberators. If you really wanted to see BCs being made, Protoss would have to be a lot more turtly with less capacity to be aggressive and the corruptor would need to be nerfed.

The current disruptor is rather important in PvP and PvZ though. I’d rather have a T counter to the disruptor, and +2 range banshee can probably help sniping them.

No one would make banshees to snipe disruptors. It’s like hoping that in TvT players would go for mid game banshees in their main army, it just won’t happen.

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I think microbial shroud and aam should switch places, aam would benefit a fungal/hydralisk army more while terran has mora gta options to use shroud.

Honestly with no consideration of balance the upgrades I would have like were

Zerg:
Ultralisk: an additionnal speed upgrade to even catch bio units. Bonus point if it gives the aberration’s skill (from campaign or coop) to move above other grounds units such as lings.

Broodlord: same, a speed upgrade would be huge on them.

Terran:
Auto repair mechanical unit with time. Likely useless for most pro for it would be to slow but nice to have.
BCs and thors are already extremely strong but the transition is hard so I’d agree with some buff to another unit with tech lab. They gave banshee speed. I think giving it +2 range is bad because it also outranges towers but AOE attack like in campaign (possibly an even worse idea) might help terrans transition air more often and quicker.
Maybe also an upgrade so that at long last SVCs could build thors as promised in WOL presentation.

Protoss:
Mothership, the old imbalanced one which apparently only existed in alpha for an absurd cost (1000/1000). Maybe make it cost even more for the ultimate unit with a warning when it starts being produced.

Carrier’s range upgrade when they retreat and maybe reduce their engage range so that they fall to their counters (high range target) but can be somewhat microed and made more effective against anything else like in sc1.

Most likely none of that would be balanced or ok at a pro level but a mode that makes some of these changes could be fun to play with friends.

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What’s hsm?
20 character.

Hard to say, people thought the void ray buffs were useless at the beginning too (well, but it’s true that hardly anyone use them to clear creep).

Ultra already do have a speed upgrade though. And although it sounds like a funny reason, but the ultra’s feet in the model is too big and too short to be moving above other units…

Someone actually suggested using raven to repair the mech like a scv, which I thought is an interesting idea.

Carrier is too hard to balance + have sensible micro. Not every unit has to micro, I don’t think.

Not really, I said that the proxy void ray all in would be retarded. Immediately we saw the rise of its popularity, it being used in GSL games, and “pros” like Harstem have said it’s really good.