Kerrigan Thread #9023

While “nobody works with them until after somebody works with them” is technically true, being a tautology, its not especially meaningful either. Raynor was clearly willing to work with Tassadar, given that he did so, and befriended him to boot.

Kerrigan has tried to murder Zeratul, specifically, in the past. Of course he mistrusts her.

At no point did I say Raynor can’t work with mass murderers if the plot needs him to. Clearly, that’s not the case and Raynor is willing to sometimes get over it and do it. However, it shouldn’t come easily and he should be mad about it or at least speak up about it.

The context of Kerrigan and Tassadar is completely different:

  • Tassadar is less responsible because he was following orders. Kerrigan started a whole war herself for petty revenge. She’s responsible.

  • Tassadar was protecting his people. Kerrigan killed people for personal reasons.

  • Tassadar was brainwashed by the Conclave. Kerrigan just killed people cuz she’s a b1tch.

  • Tassadar was stemming the growth of the zerg, which indirectly protected both his people and the terrans. Kerrigan was crippling the Dominion war machine for no reason even though her target was one guy.

  • The people Tassadar killed would have had horrible deaths at the hands of the zerg. Still wrong to kill them, but he most likely eased their suffering. Kerrigan killed people who were going to live full lives and displaced a bunch of populations, making life worse for so many.

  • Tassadar feels genuine guilt. Tassadar tried to make amends and rebelled against his government, just like Raynor did. This is why Raynor is willing to cut him some slack. Kerrigan on the other hand makes no apologies (we are all murderers) and has to be begged by Valerian to save civilians.

The part where Raynor is initially pissed in HotS but gets over it in like 5 minutes and is all “always been a pleasure darlin” is completely ridiculous and unbelievable.

With Tassadar, the plot/games never covered the period where he would have been mad at him. In BW when he worked with Kerrigan, he clearly expressed his displeasure. “How many more noble souls do you have to consume before you’re satisfied. I’ll see you dead for this. Blah blah.” No such thing really in SC2.

The only novelization that covers this period is the Queen of Blades book, which corroborates my claims:

Raynor had refused. The protoss were their allies
against the zerg! Raynor wasn’t going to fight them,
especially when the protoss had never attacked them
directly. They had targeted Terran colonies only after
the zerg had already corrupted them.

Yes, that
was the zerg way—they absorbed their fallen foes into
the Swarm. So perhaps the protoss had saved his people
from a fate worse than death.

Raynor didn’t know what to say. He’d been so damn
pissed at Tassadar when they’d first met, because the
protoss had destroyed a few hundred men and their
ships. Now he learned that the Executor had deliberately
disobeyed orders to spare millions of other
humans, and had come here looking for a way to end
the problem before anyone else got hurt. It was one of
the most selfless things he had ever heard of

That’s no excuse. He knew what he was doing.

“protecting his people” isn’t a personal reason?

You just made this up. Tassadar was never brainwashed, and Kerrigan was literally being hunted across the galaxy by this guy who was killing everybody around her for being around her.

She was crippling the war machine because it improved her ability to wage war. That’s what wars are.

You mean Mengsk’s soldiers? The ones she would be killing anyway because Mengsk was actively trying to kill her?

This is a wild misconstruing of what happened, and if you aren’t going to debate honestly, you aren’t going to debate at all.

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I see what you mean, but I think you’re forgetting something: player perspective.

In Starcraft: Brood War, you’re a different character witnessing all of these conversations. In StarCraft 2, the player is the hero character. So in “Heart of the Swarm,” you are Kerrigan, so you’re not going to see conversations like this, since no one’s going to talk to Kerrigan like that.

It would actually have been worse to do what you’re suggesting.

She’s the villain for two thirds of the original game and Starcraft: Brood War, as well as StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty. Once we reach StarCraft II: Heart of the Swarm, though, she’s not. She actually is an antihero by definition.

In StarCraft: Evolution, a few Dominion characters do, as I recall. However in-game, you’re correct.

They don’t have to talk to Kerrigan like that. This scene shows Valerian and Horner talking when Kerrigan isn’t on the monitor but before she contacts them:

  • [Horner] : The northeast sector is clear.

  • [Valerian] : We’re behind the eastern corridor

Also, it could have been done anytime during LotV. I don’t buy this excuse. :man_shrugging:

Kerrigan should be portrayed as a villain similar to Mengsk in my opinion. She could still be a protagonist and Mengsk could still be an antagonist, they just shouldn’t try so hard to redeem Kerrigan and not have anybody have a bad word of her.

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True, but the fact that it’s orders from someone else takes some of the blame off him.

Yes, but it’s noble and about other people, not petty and only about yourself.

Templar are all ingrained with the belief that the will of the Conclave is absolute and sacred. They are taught not to question it.

Yeah, but she started a war. Tassadar didn’t force the zerg to invade terran space and come after his people. The decision to burn planets wasn’t even his. If he wasn’t there, someone else would have done it. We should happy Tassadar was there instead of literally anyone else.

She has other options like leaving the sector, assassination, or what we’re talking about in the other thread: building up her forces and confining her attack to just Augustgrad itself.

Ok fine, I admit Kerrigan expresses some guilt (when she says she’ll pay for her crimes), but this is never enough to get her to change her course, unlike Tassadar. Tassadar would probably take his actions back; we both know Kerrigan would not.

Oh yeah, I was very deeply touched by it too. You know when your Daddy’s a drunk and beats you up, then cries and asks for your forgivness? But it happens again and again…

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It’s not an “excuse,” it’s the perspective for the game’s story.

Whether you choose to “believe” it or not is irrelevant.

I literally gave you an example where that’s not the case.

What would even the point of that be other than to insult the player?

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Offering a different perspective and adding some depth? People insult the player all the time in SC1, even to their face. Why is it impossible for SC2?

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No, I mean insulting the player, not the character. Do you think theyre stupid and need a moral judgment spoon fed to them by the game? You talk about good writing, and yet the things youre asking to see directly detract from the quality.

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The game already treats the player like they’re stupid. They expect us to buy the idea that good cop Raynor who cares the peepul is in love with a mass murderer and that nobody brings it up even though they can, and that we should just gloss over this this little inconvenience like it isn’t there.

You need to stop projecting your personal beef with Kerrigan onto the game characters and then getting surprised when they act like they don’t share it.

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Zeratul and Artanis have way more reason to be pissed at Kerrigan than I do.

Both of whom also believe her to be important to their efforts to stop Amon. Zeratul does mention that he believes she should die, and Artanis is very visibly considering killing her at one point, but both of them move on because picking a fight with her is stupid and pointless, and whining about having to work with her is so far beyond either of their characters.

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“I know we brought back Kerrigan’s humanity last game, but can we just pretend that’s not a thing? Just have fun destroying planets in our zerg campaign.”

That above is the definition of treating the player like they’re stupid.

Protoss aren’t known for their ability to “move on”.

They whine about her multiple times in SC1.

The current protoss leadership is defined specifically by their ability to move on.

Citation needed. Zeratul says one line to her about how he doesn’t like her because of that time she tried to kill him, and that’s literally the end of it, even after she betrays them again.

ZERATUL
You are the enemy of all who live, Kerrigan. What makes you think
we would have anything to do with you?

ZERATUL
Wretched creature! This was a Protoss matter; you had no right
to interfere! Begone from this world! You are no longer welcome
among us!

Zeratul
You ask me to aid this vile creature?

Zeratul
As if your word held any value…

Artanis
Kerrigan, this is Artanis. My brethren and I have come to avenge the deaths of Fenix, the Matriarch, and all of the other Protoss who fell before the Swarm! It is long past time you paid for your crimes against our people.

ARTANIS
Savor this victory, Kerrigan! For the Protoss will never forget your
treachery. We shall be watching you.

What does HotS and LotV have? Nothing, complete silence from everyone but her victims who she kills. Looking at you Lassara/Warfield.