I really want to lower and slowly shake my head from one side to the other, when I see those aliens from the Versus world believing what they write make sense (these "number followed by a building/unit name).
In coop it doesn’t (because extensions have more varying distance, and are protected either by rocks or enemies, that vary with difficulty and other factors…)
In versus, it may to some extent, but even there those numbers are doubtful and may not work on some maps, no idea how it managed to get under everyone skin so much.
of course there are maps which require unique way to catch fast expansion. Karax is able to do it on each map but it requires a lot of practice. ME is the only map i have to ignore first ship to build economy. But later carriers and SoA are able to def even 3 ships simoutaniesly
Well, here’s the thing though: It provides an estimated supply timing rather than using the clock or guessing when one should be dong X thing. It’s more so a fluid guide than a set in stone order. Can be varied and swapped around based on map and what the expansion is like.
As for the order itself… It’s fairly lacking, imo. You’re going to be banking A LOT of minerals and you should invest into some more Gateways and Warp Gate research. Every time I see a Carrier player without any supplemental Zealots, I automatically mentally tick them as a sub-par player that would rather go to blimps than actually help at all during the early game.
I personally run with 4 Gate/2 Stargate while getting my SoA abilities and Air Attack going. Most of your gas early on is chewed up through upgrades and research. With this, I’m not just sitting on my hands while my ally does all the work, I can support with Sentinels by letting them face tank for them. Reconstruction is optional, but I prefer to skip it as they are only used as a mineral dump.
My question would be, can you solo with that build order? If not, then you need to add some variance since occasionally you have a useless ally. I imagine you can, but it would probably be slower to clear than other build orders.
This is the part I’m most confused about in this build order’s supposedly highlight.
As far as I can remember in P0 (as I play P3, ie. without Chrono at all), but anyway with P0, you can get out 2-3 carriers by 8min anyway? So what is a P2 Karax Carrier build order getting 3 carriers by 8min providing?
Isn’t this just an average gameplay?
Having 40% cost reduction, I’d imagine you can get more than 3 by earlier? Yeah really confused here. 64sec for a carrier to build. Even the slowest of Karax should have tech’d and saturated 2 base by 7min. So that should be at a minimum 2 carriers by 8min. 3 seems rather unimpressive… as P2.
(Also, as an aside, just doing some maths here. 100+gas/min/geyser. So at even 2 saturated geysers on main, from 3min to 8min is 5 total min x 100 x 2. That’s 1000gas. 500gas sank into 2 Stargates and Fleet Beacon would still give you 500gas to spare. At 195gas a piece, that is super reasonable, especially if you consider the other 2 geysers. Seem like not super tight.)
This means that this guy doesn’t know what he is doing.
But anyone can post build orders if they think they are amazing. I had an ally Karax open 3 forges and go into Carriers, and when I pointed out the 3 forges, he gloated that he knows what he is doing and he “carried” the game. Perhaps I should add that build to this post, they are equally “good”.
While what you posted isn’t false, it’s still something familiar for the rest of us to go by. It’s something that can be tweaked to suit the actual mission and its sub-situations.
Hell, the Sc2 Coop dot com site suggests build orders in the same format. For the Masteries, it suggests how to allocate points (and why), but does say that you can reallocate them to suit your play style, and situation (like Mutators). Ditto here https://starcraft2coop.com/
With your 3Cariers at 8min I defended allready 3waves alone, cleared half the map and done plenty of upgrades. Yeah that the difference between Master and Goldie - but you will be stuck there 4eva and Carried by Cariers
I’ve given it a test, as P2 you’ll just float far too many mineral. Especially if you take into consideration that expansion rock isn’t broken nearly as quickly as one would like.
As such, there’s plenty opportunity for (at least) his build to add in several gateways to fend off waves/objectives without hindering Carriers in any way.
I based my test on solo’ing on Void Launch. As always, P2 is hindered more by tech path than actual resources. So honestly, going Nexus first in favor of “more carriers” isn’t necessarily the best option, imo.
I find that I’m stripped for gas more than minerals when going Carrier P2 Karax. But yes, this just further hammers in my point that Karaxes that go mass Carrier without any Gateway support to assist their allies are mostly deadweight. They only make use of their top bars, and have no ground presence to assist an ally.
Yeah, cuz the 40% cost reduction kicks in only in army. So anything tech/structure wise up to carriers-being-made is the same.
The saved mineral cost from P2 can be instead invested in Sentinels (that other prestiges don’t have the luxury to do so). However, the saved gas can’t be similarly invested into any army units.
This is why, as P2 mass carriers, the player isn’t really any better at the beginning compared to non-P2. That 40% advantage at most gives 1 extra carrier compared to non-P2. Where P2 shines is post midgame, where infrastructures are built, thus all resources can be diverted to army. Only then can P2 get a faster “max carrier time” as a result of its cheaper gas cost.
Thanks to the TopBar chrono, you can just saturate as soon as that comes off cooldown, meaning that you don’t need an early expansion and can get an earlier gateway with zealots.
Other Aspects that don’t really related to your build and may be what you already do You can get some zealots first to open up the gas and save on Spear shots, which is mostly what you want for Carriers. The Zealots combined with spear mean you also have some early presence. You can tank some for your ally and spear clumps of enemies.
You can also get the Zealot revive ability and 2/0/0 upgrades. This is minimal gas cost and the zealots don’t need any extra durability to be a great mineral dump. Similarly, your carriers are fine with 2/0/0 and 3/0/0 for a longer map.
This order seems to be one of the quickest to mass carriers. However you may not be able to contribute to early game to mid game.
Usually I use Zealots / energizers / batteries with some orbital strikes to be useful early on. Then transition to whatever build I want, immortals or carriers.
It’s not even that though, that’s the thing. It’s just a very mediocrely standard pathway to get to mass carriers.
It’s not on the tightest timing to get there. It doesn’t have coverage for the duration before getting there.
Does it work? Sure, as all build orders work in terms of “if you wanted to get mass carriers”. I can make 20 extra probes in a similar build order and still call it a mass carrier build order with no meaningful difference by comparison. If you get what I’m saying .
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