Is it worth starting as a complete newbie in 2020?

General Discussion
1

Hi,

I have SC2 for some time now, but mostly I was playing campaign and very little coop.
This time after replaying and finishing campaign for the n-th time, I thought I will play versus A.I a bit.
I’ve read that playing ranked versus people is very frustrating experience, mostly due to toxicity (gg git gud noob), smurfs, and all in all people are miles better even at low leagues (bronze/silver) and expect like 1% win rate as a new player (sounds fun!).
I still haven’t played a lot of games vs AI, I am at “hard” level now, but I feel at least with A.I I will avoid all the frustrations and toxicity mentioned above and can progress in difficulty at my own pace (hard won’t take long, as it’s still way to easy). But I feel that learning to build 60-70 drones on 3 nexuses, not to cap on supply, learn camera control and not to forget to build forge for upgrades - A.I is a better choice than smurfs/toxic people.
Or it is not?

EDIT: So today I tried it, in 1st placement match I got placed vs plat1 zerg, defended for 19mins vs his 5 hatcheries and finally went out of units/resourses after like 5th attack wave :slight_smile: hopefully I can get someone more of my skill level next time. But was fun, did millions mistakes compared to playing vs A.I, but was good experience. I messed up control groups badly few times and lost a lot of good units, but I try to play without select all army keybind, since streamers say it’s a bad habit to have from playing campaign :slight_smile:

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2

If you pick zerg yes.

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It’s not. Though the mechanical challenge could sometimes be there, it can’t compare to being matched against a thinking opponent. And that because it will get predictable, leading you to know what works against the AI, and so winning every time you can replicate that scheme. Not to mention the computer can’t really execute some strategies efficiently (drops in particular, setting up good sieges, etc.).

While against humans… sometimes they play standard, sometimes you get something completely crazy, and most often a bit of both ! It’s so much exciting to play without knowing, to adapt on the fly, to prepare mindgames and traps for your opponent. It also greatly increases the mechanical challenge ; and combined with the unexpected/scouting/strategical aspect of the game makes it near impossible to master.

So, if you want real challenge and real fun, you’d better start playing 1v1 vs human opponents again IMO. The VS AI can’t even compare in terms of fun.

However, I completely hear the concerns about toxicity, and most of all smurfing. At the moment, the devs do not realize how much of a hinder to the game, and a fun ruiner for the players this is becoming. Particularly for the new ones. I’ve created a thread gathering as much data and feedback possible about the phenomenon.
Take a look at it (specially the part I and IV), you’ll find some advice to better react to smurfs. And, if you’ve find the read or the aim are worth it, give a sign on it. The more popular the topic becomes, the greater the chances for the blue ones to notice it. :slightly_smiling_face:

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4

no its not unless you enjoy extreme confusion/getting wrecked without understanding why.

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5

Stick to it. Play more co-op, play more arcade, but do not get into versus. It is not worth it in 2020. I guarantee you that with all my heart.

This is one of the least toxic games out there. This is because of the community - not because Blizzard enforces anything. In popular games like Fortnite, League, CSGO, whatever, they have a very strong moderation system that takes toxicity very seriously. On here? You have almost nothing. Overall, the SC2 community is very good, and you will inevitably hit toxicity in whatever online game you play.

Smurfing is rampant in the lower levels. You won’t hit a smurf all the time, but you will hit them frequently. As far as I know, Blizzard highly encourages smurfing and smashing on lower levels to gain a better sense of self because they’ve done absolutely nothing to stop smurfing. Smurfing happens in other games, but it doesn’t happen as frequently as it does on here.

Yes, as with any new player, when you start out, you will hit a huge lose streak. That’s part of the learning process. It will take time, but if you put effort into learning the game, I guarantee you will improve and can hit at least plat rank (unless you are disabled).

It is the far better choice, but AI do not play like people. If you want to truly learn how to play the game, you have to learn by playing against real people. The AI have big brains, but they are very bad at the game. However, you will be able to enjoy the game playing vs AI. 1vAI is lonely, and team vs AI has company, but if you drag down your ally, they might get angry at you (not often).

I wouldn’t worry about toxicity unless you are a snowflake. At your level, I wouldn’t worry about smurfing either really. It’s only when you hit diamond where smurfing starts to matter. Just play the game to enjoy it, but do try to learn build orders and scouting.

Then again, I wouldn’t recommend getting into versus at all.

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6

No… You will be just crushed and frustrated, better play another game

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7

Toxicity in 1v1 is really really low, maybe you can se some flaming dude in one of every 50-60 games. Now, team games…I have read that toxicity is more common there, more people, less skill, less balance and imbalanced strats make that mode more suitable for raging people.In general 1v1 players are pretty chill and even if they are mad because they lost, won’t go too far with their BM and most of the time they will leave with no gg and not with an insult.

I would suggest playing coop a bit more, to get used to making a couple of bases and making units, and then practicing 1 build order per matchup against IA for some days, and then jumping into ranked, get into a league and play some unraked games and playing some ranked once you are used to the games.

Why not?, I don’t see any reason to not playing the game if you already like the genre and the competitivity and 1v1 is a mode in which you can see if you improve or not, you don’t rely on others, you improve, you win more, few games can offer that.

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8

I’d just go for it. You will absolutely lose plenty when starting out if you just go in with no knowledge (as it should be). However, there are mountains of resources available online for new players to learn how to play versus so the intro learning curve isn’t as harsh. If you’re genuinely interested, I’d start by looking at guides from high level players on YouTube. Otherwise, just hit the Ranked button and go for it. The worst possible outcome is you lose; then watch the replay, see why you lost, and do better next time.

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9

It is but … Your first 20-30 games will be a nightmare and you will get stomped. Most of us went through that and to my knowledge there is no way around it, not even AI. And if you are able to endure it you will start winning games and get into it. This is not necessarily because of smurfs or anything (i think there is more a perception of smurfing than actual smurfing) , you will just meet players who are better acquainted with the game even at the lowest level. Gets much better and rewarding after you go through that hump. Also look for bronze to gm builds on youtube and check the bronze videos and stick to that, it will make things much easier at the beginning.

On the other hand I do not think toxicity in sc2 is nearly as bad as in other games, you will meet the occasional douche, but it is actually quite rare. Most people (myself included) rant when they loose not when they win, so you should not have many issues on that front because let’s face it, it is extremely fun when you get ranted on after a win.

My advise, if you really want to get into the game go play 1v1 and skip AI, and play ranked right away since it will better aid you to check on your own progress and should make the experience more rewarding once you start gaining momentum.

Another piece of advise, dont bother with camera controls and dont focus too much on upgrades if you are just starting, add these things as you move through the leagues. Focus on creating workers expanding and making a lot of stuff. Making more units alone, even without upgrades can get you to Plat easy and maybe even Diamond (which was my case but i did start adding upgrades in Plat), and for all that is holy and sacred DO NOT SCOUT, you probably wont even know what to do with the information and you cannot really spare the attention at this point, just focus on the core stuff and you will rise quickly, FYI I did not scout until I got to Diamond.

IMO SC2 is one of the most rewarding games out there since your progress is determined by your own performance, and you have the exact same tools as pro player so all your progression will be made on your skill alone. It has a very steep learning curve but it is well worth the effort if you are willing to put time on it.

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I like protoss, so I am doomed? :frowning:

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I noticed that A.I doesn’t do cheeses like I saw i some youtube videos (canon rushes, baracks rushes etc.).
As for scouting, I guess at my level it’s only important to see if a player is expanding/investing to tech, or going for units/army early. But I realy can’t tell the difference between 0, 1 or 2 gas extractors at early game, etc.
For now I only focus on 1 protoss “build” - 3 active nexuses, army consists of stalkers mixed with few zealots/sentries and several immortals and archons in the mix for assault + warp prism to warp-in 10-15 zealots/stalkers/sentries in the enemy base for distraction (I have like 15 gateways before assaulting). Works wonders on A.I, not so easy against players I guess. :slight_smile:

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No, in fact, picking Z as a new player is harder because Z requires some game sense that if you are completely new, won’t have and their production style is something weird for newbies, T and P has a production more suited for starting players. But the important thing is you must play the race you like the most, not the race you think is better because at ladder every race is good, do not listen to whiners.

AI is very limited and cheats at the highest level, it is only good for practicing builds and general mechanics when you are new. If you want to practice a build order, you can play against AI on easy so it won’t attack you at all leaving you alone to follow your build, it’s a good way to practice since all you have to do is following a build and it takes less time than average ladder games.If you practice builds, only practice until minute 6-7,practice until your first minutes of the game are refined, once you have refined your start, work on managing three bases and getting 200/200 that at toss you will need around 62-65 probes, 7-8 gategaways and 1-2 robo.

Scouting?, some players advice newbies against it since they won’t know anything about the game, I advice scouting so you can start seeing things,weird things, but in the long run you will get used to having a probe around the map, just at first send it with shift command, just to see enemy base for a while and do not try anything with it and focus on your macro, just check what the probe saw and that’s all until you reach higher levels.

As a build, I would suggest something solid like 2 gateways,cybercore and then expand followed by a robo, pump 1-2 inmortals and then start making collosus and stalkers while you get a full two base eco and I think you will crush most of the people until gold, full two base eco at 7 minutes and three bases at 10 minutes and you will be fine.Once you get better you will start doing more refined builds and will be able to expand earlier while keeping it safe,low ranks is a cheese fiesta, winning by expanding is easy but the enemy will try something cheese every game and you can die if you overexpand and do not play safe.

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13

I can second that. The message players who advice you NOT to scout is that you should focus on your mechanics first, because if you haven’t got enough stuff you will lose anyway. Though mechanics are crucial, that is only partly true, because some cheeses/strategies do require specific answers to be timely executed, which would put you way behind if done blindly every game.

For example, if your opponent opens DT, that requires detection. If he goes for a proxy rax/gate or a pool first, you will need to setup defenses. A bunker/cannon/spine ready in time can make all the difference.
A player who would be used not to scout could get the best mechanics in the world, if the opponent goes for a counterbuild (for example proxy 3 rax vs reaper expand) he will then lose nearly systematically. And get salty. Some GM streamers on Twitch are a good example of that.

So, focus on your macro, but start scouting if your opponent expanded or not, how many gas he took, and how many production buildings he started with. Then leave your probe where he is supposed to expand. It won’t take you a bunch of APMs and will already learn you to recognize basic allins/cheeses. :slightly_smiling_face:

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14

The only thing I reccomend to completelly stay away from, is team versus, be it 2v2, 3v3, 4v4, there you can get very toxic and trolly games, bad allies that can blame you even though you’re not at fault.

1v1 you can get that but it’s less and can at least teach you a thing or two by watching replays.

So stay a bit on VS AI but just to get used to your build order and scouting, then try out ladder.

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Dude’s not sure if it’s worth it starting 1v1 ladder.
You: you will be destroyed unless you do mountains of research before even playing the game. Research outside of Blizzard’s platforms.

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16

I started a few months ago and i’m having a good time, choose a race, look for build orders online and try to imitate some mainstream strategies against AI, try some unranked games before going ladder and you should be fine.

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I don’t believe this is so. Especially towards a “new” player. Pro player’s skills are their tool, but that tool isn’t available to everyone. Some things are simply beyond the control (literally speaking) of the lower the league player.

You can play the best game of your life and lose because you’re matched with someone greater (definitely OP for a long time) and others, you can make mistajes after mistakes after mistakes and still win because your opponent made a single crucial one.

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Me: Watch some guides
SunRise: That’s “mountains of research”

Me: If you go in with no knowledge, yeah you’re gonna lose a few games as expected
SunRise: You will be DESTROYED.

Everything I suggested are reasonable courses of action and expectations. Do you just…feed off your own hyperbole or what?

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Lets meet in the middle :wink:
I’m hyperbolic and you’re a back peddler.

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Mountains of resources !== Doing mountains of research
Getting Destroyed !== You will absolutely lose plenty