Hey everyone,
I just wanna talk about something that really bothers me about maining dehaka.
I really wanna know how everyone else feels about this so pls feel free to answer.
So i main dehaka and play him alot and know what i have to do. Right from the very start dehaka basically takes off faster than all other commanders. I think he spawns at the 2 minute mark. And from there can clear the first objetives from enemys before the other commander even has a usable army.
And it doesnt get better from here on. Rushing the powerfull packleaders and then building an army.
Each packleader if used well can basically tackle an attackwave or objective on his own. Same goes for dehaka. And then you have his powerfull army later in the game.
That bascially allows you to fight on 3-4 fronts at the same freaking time. The mapwide calldowns and dehakas deeptunnel rival tychus medivacs in terms of map control and speed.
I really like playing h&h or abathur as well. But when i have my army at one place its there. And i have to move it. When i play dehaka i just send glevik. Murvar. Or just grant vision with a wurm and deeptunnel dehaka.
I just feel like i can be anywhere whenever its needed.
And thats my problem. It keeps lesser experienced players from doing anything.
It even went so far that i just stopped playing for a few seconds and let my partner fight a wave on his own just so he doesnt feel useless.
Thats my problem with dehaka or tyhchus. Usually you can split up work. You go here i go there. Dehaka is just. Iam here. And there. And there. You come along.
How do you guys feel about that?. Does it annoy you? Or are you the player whos everywhere and does everything? You think it annoys your partner? I seriously start to feel bad and started playing other commanders.
Sorry for the long read. I really hope for some honest opinions.
8 Likes
Zergzilla is fine. He just needs a cute girl to hold while waving his claw at the circling Protoss Scouts while heâs chilling on top of the Nexus. Oh, wait, thatâs Zerg Kong; close enough, though.
Most commanders are powerful, and some are OP. As many people have pointed out, balance is not the objective of coop and Bliz wants you to have more power than in a Versus/Competitive environment. So, Zergzilla being tough just makes him fun to play.
7 Likes
He seems to have been a bit over-tuned from the start, but most of that shouldnât really change now. The only candidates Iâd consider for nerfing are the psionic explosions and Glevigâs ability, as those are really pretty extreme.
But Dehakaâs over-tuned all over the place, from the ground up. He has less need for free 200 supply than almost anyone else, he certainly never needed a top tier hero with top tier calldowns and an army as strong as it is.
Anyway, it doesnât bother me too much. Itâs a big part of why I donât enjoy playing him, and I probably wouldnât enjoy playing alongside a good Dehaka player either, but heâs hardly unique in being able to âkeep less experienced players from doing anythingâ, soâŚ
2 Likes
Kerrigans nydus worms crush Dehaka as far as omnipresence goes.
13 Likes
Iâve had people quit on me because I didnât let them do anything so it is kind of a problem? But I think that says more about the average player than of Dehaka himself since there are many commanders that can do that, granted some take more skill to do it than others but still.
In the past I might have agreed that heâs a bit too strong but nowadays with Tychus omnipresence thanks to medivacs and Zeratul cannons instead they should just give a hand to commanders that donât have any quick movement option or easy spawn camping.
2 Likes
Well H&H got a whole airfleet.
Since the attack range is approx. double the length of the visual indicator, you can use the mastery and kill off bases without even needing vision of them ⌠you can start them at attack Range 24 ⌠you will still hit.
1 Like
The only thing more OP would be a commander who can get a monster out by 2 minutes and use that monster to get two more monsters out by 4 minutes, each with a full-map teleport on 10s cooldown, through fog of war. Then they can get 3 flying monsters by around 6-7 minutes that can rampage through bases with little effort.
Itâs a good thing such OPness doesnât exist.
17 Likes
Oh good, here I thought you were going to talk about a bizarre concept of a commander who could summon incredibly buffed cannons out of the air for free or somethingâŚ
Serious note, yeah, Dehaka is really good. But for my view point anyway, playing with him lets me get amazingly greedy with my builds, stuff like BC Raynor or Void Ray Vorazun are actually doable if thereâs a Godzilla stomping around. Wonât see me complain.
2 Likes
Is the basis for evaluation that he can be at multiple front? If so, then he isnât too powerful (as this is done by many and many surpass Dehaka).
Or is the basis used on the fact your ally canât do anything? In which case, that is a showcase of room to grow on the allyâs part. I would consider it a disrespect if youâre âallowingâ them to do something like taking on a wave.
3 Likes
(cough cough) abathur (cough cough)
3 Likes
Not so humble bragging from OP asideâŚ
Dehaka is very strong, no two ways about it, but if you think heâs got anywhere near the level of constant, unrelenting, almost micro-free map presence of a well played Abathur youâre insane, and there are plenty of commanders (Kerrigan in particular) that make mockery of his mobility too.
For the average player earlygame Dehakaâs micro need is enough to slow down their expansion anyways, which helps balance him out there.
Personally I donât mind playing alongside Dehaka, a Kerrigan who knows what Omega Worms are is much more annoying in terms of doing everything, and unlike Dehaka she can also casually clear entire bases by herself with minimal micro instead of just the units with a lot of micro. Zeratul cannons too. Even a well played Raynor with man-rain and good cd usage.
Like if they ended up nerfing Dehaka yeah Iâd agree itâs probably deserved but this topic aint it, chief.
3 Likes
I play Random a lot so I get a good comparison between how strong the different commanders are, and I can definitely say that Dehaka is fine and quite well balanced. He gets started sooner but takes a lot of careful micro to be optimal, snagging kills to level up and actually have the health and damage of someone like Kerrigan or Tychus.; otherwise he dies very easily and then you have to waste Drones fast-reviving him. You also have to do a fair bit of multi-tasking early on, splitting your attention between Dehaka to get him his biomass and your macro to get your economy and pack leaders and actual army rolling. Heâs powerful but with drawbacks you need to play around: perfectly balanced, as all things should be.
3 Likes
IMHO dehaka, zeratul, tychus and abathur need a sizeable nerf.
They are incredibly powerful at early game and very strong during mid/late game.
Generally they have almost no weakness and are also rather easy to play.
2 Likes
The reasons for your call to nerf lack context and are highly contentious.
- Dehaka and Abathur require much practice, excellent micro to reach high skill ceilings. This is a feat the average player doesnât have (based on my experiences of seeing players use them). So a nerf for them would vastly reduce their effectiveness to a majority of players who use them, only to achieve a pointless purpose of reducing their skill ceiling for the pros.
- Tychus and Zeratulâs lack of macro and robustness that mitigate punishment is their low skill-floor. The assumption by many is that all commanders have equal growth (skill floor to skill ceiling) - an absolutely wrong understanding. While there is no doubt they are strong commanders, their lack of growth is in fact their biggest detriment. So again, to nerf them is unwarranted.
Undoubtedly, there are certain part of these commanders that can use a tweak or two:
- Zeratulâs cannon spam
- Tychusâs Medivac, Blaze, Nikara
- Dehakaâs Packleader imbalance
- Abathurâs power disparity with and without Ultimate Evolutions
However, the general approach for Coop should be to buff and not nerf.
7 Likes
It is a bit annoying. Especially Mist Opportunities. The last harvest run, there are 4 spawning points and I was playing Alarak. Dehaka camps 3 of the 4 spawn points with 4 tyrannozors that can clean up everything in an instant, and the 4th point he camps with Dehaka doing atomic farts.
Or we can view it as, you (as the Alarak player) could of split your Ascendants 5-7 each point and easily Psionic Orb everything to death. How is that any different than Dehaka camping these spots with 4 x 600/400 units (meanwhile the Ascendants doesnât even need stacks to wipe the waves at 6 x 50/150).
2 Likes
If I get random dehaka or abathur there is a higher chance that my ally will outkill me ⌠because i just canât micro them at all.
I mean - seriously ⌠both want you to harvest biomass/essences, while macroing your base. You have to constantly switch between base, main unit skills and as abathur drop your nests.
As soon as you get calldowns / ultimates you have to micro them, too. Glevig needs fast micro, while dehaka already has some skills to keep him alive - and your mutas will die if you stop moving - Ultimates simply die if you a - move.
1 Like
Nah Raynor, Abathur, Zagara, and Nova can ruin the fun for your allies more effectively if weâre just talking about map control and spawn killing.
I guess Stetmann Infestor spam can lag out people with weaker computers.
1 Like
Honestly, I wish I could get a good teammate to compete with. For the most part, the only time I get real competition for the kill counter is when my Bro (the Heroes of the Storm player) plays Tychus. Heâs good to the point of me thinking maybe Tychusâ crew is even more OP than the 3 teleporting monsters and the sea of invincible and respawning doom mines