Basically artosis talks about what I observe in PVT. Terrans mostly try to not fight the protoss army. I think special coaches this playstyle and its very popular. Rather they try to win by out-multitasking the opponent. I call it the “never defend” style. The alternative style would be to build libs and tanks and ghosts and just try to kill the protoss army.
Artosis talks about how Maru and TY the best terrans basically go the alternative style in PVT. Lesser terrans do the first style where they basically never try to fight the protoss and just outmultitask them. Artosis says “a lot of these up and coming terran players are trying to win through speed and multitasking alone which when you win it looks dramatic and amazing but when you lose it looks hopeless”.
Imagine being a terran player and so entitled and oblivious to think that having MMM should win you any game versus protoss. You all are so predictable going for the same 2 units every game (sometimes making marauders too, if u dont forget) expecting to overpower any other army composition and after 10 years, we should kill you with eyes closed. If your maxed army does not consist of at least 4 thors&liberators, 6 vikings, 3 ravens, 5 ghosts and 7 tanks, you should not be winning a single bronze game. At least zerg has an excuse, many of their units do not synergise and complete eachother but if protoss doesnt have a mix of minimum 6 unit types in their army, they cant do sh.it to MMM, so terran should be the same. Until u learn there are other units in this race, u deserve to lose every single game. Edit: fixed some mispelling
no P is OP and does whatever it wants. there is no way to beat them. Call the TCF, idgaf
seriously tho, that’s some Art of War shtuff. Your opponent can’t be everywhere at once. That was what always annoyed me the most about vs terran, was the stupid amount of harass they could pull off with drops and whatnot. I’m sure pros have it worse. I should play terran to git gud at harass.
Do u even play the game? How is using MMM entitlement? It’s the only efficient composition. Whether u add ghost or lib . Like saying toss only goes ground and templsr. No ur right actually we don’t have 2000 Cheese ways to win we have only one efficient
This is pretty true. Contrary to popular belief, there are ways to play out the mid/late game vs. Protoss that doesn’t involve mindlessly spamming MMM. As you’ve said, it’s actually utilizing late game units like liberators and tanks and ghosts. Ghosts counter high templar, tanks counter stalkers, liberators counter all things ground, vikings counter colossus.
But Terrans don’t want to play that kind of style. They just want to spam T1 units and then complain when Protoss does things like spam gateway units back (God forbid Protoss does the same thing as Terran), make colossus, or make disruptors, etc.
Terran players have been indoctrinated to believe that MMM is the only solution to every matchup despite having very powerful late game tools. It’s absolute nonsense, and if any Terran thought to think outside of the MMM box, I guarantee it would bring them farther than they are right now vs. Protoss.
Thanks for gold level advice. I had no idea I had to use ghosts n libs. I only know to spam MMM cause im silver If I’m lucky I hit GOLD 3 this year
Now tell me how many times when people say bio u think they MMM. It remains core army no matter what u add. Until ofc u know to switch to Bc which is rare to make to reach critc mass.
Also part of the terran playstyle is to harass and exhaust enemy economy. This is not some 1 strategy preference it is how u play terran. Going a move battles is rarely a good thing.
This shows how much GM posters know when they critize the terran winerz
The endgame composition is called biomech because a lot of times is 50% or even more mech.Making some vikings does not turn your bio army into something really different. Its like a protoss ground army with 4 carriers,thats not skytoss and it is basically a ground army.
A lot of T want to beat P players with mostly bio compositions,you can’t deny it,and the transitions many times come when its too late after spending too much resources and time on bio strats,similar to noregret transitioning to lair tech when the low tier strat starts failing.
T is a good race for multitasking bio strats so it makes sense playing that style if you are not confident in lategame scenarios.
You forgot the Mattlecruiser with the Mamato-ability .
All jokes aside, I think what matters most is the skill of the player (e.g. if I was to battle an top terran/ zerg/ toss I don’t think it would matter which composition he would play: he would probably still beat me playing with inverted mouse while being tickled all of the time).
If one can’t beat a certain composition, maybe one’s skill is just not on par with the skill of the opponent executing his strategy. That goes for protoss complaining about a ghost-viking army, terrans complaining about proxyvoidraybuilds, zergs complaining about stimmed marines,…
I think Artosis had a point there pointing out that Maru and TY aren’t afraid of going into lategame with a broader unit composition then most of the other terrans. I also think they still are better then players like Bunny/ Dream/… and their results prove that over and over again.
It’s something that goes for every balance-whine where one searches for an excuse because one is not capable of countering a strategy the opponent uses at the level which he is playing.
Artistic T players that are too low IQ to realize Starcraft is a mechanical game, not a Hollywood movie experience, where the Marines just “tough out” the opponent with shear testosterone.
They are too “special” for this cruel and logical world.
Eh, Protoss can also literally out produce Terran with gateway units and just throw waves upon waves at the Terran until their defenses finally buckle.
Terran is playing on a knife’s edge vs Protoss no matter what build they do, if the Protoss player is good at macro.
With proxy void ray you can beat Terran who is 1K MMR above you. That’s why majority of ladder Protoss play this OP cr@p.
MMM even with WM or Tank support looses to Chargelot-Stalker-Colossus at least on the ladder, Viking-Ghost however requires Protoss to add Disruptors and Storms.
While Storm whine is stupid (Storm is perfectly fine in TvP and a bit too weak in PvZ), Disruptor is an S-tier unit because it makes it almost impossible for Terran army to force an engagement and single Disruptor hit can end the game in Protoss favour.
Another real problem are blink DTs because they can blink on top of your planetary and kill it almost immediately. Very few of them are needed to kill PF in e.g. 3 hits and no reasonable defenses can kill such DT squad faster than they kill a PF.
This.
In fact making it to midgame and killing Protoss army in decisive battle with Viking-Ghost army is my go-to strategy, however to make it to this point you as a Terran need to deal quite a lot of economical damage to the Protoss first and right now there are too few options remaining of how it can be done.
Hmm I don’t know that’s true. Terran bio units build faster in general and are cheaper. A marauder builds in about the same time than a chronoboosted stalker and Templar, DTs take even longer. The only advantage of the gateway is that protoss can immediately perfectly position their units with warp ins as opposed to the Terran rally across the map. However rally has the advantage of being continuous you never miss production cycles. It also allows you to lump in factories and skyports to the same hotkey, something that doesn’t work as well with the protoss side for production because the warp in mechanic is different than the production mechanic from robos and stargates. The argument that protoss out produces Terran isn’t supported by the data… generally at any given time in most games the Terran army size is larger (in part due to playstyles that prioritize aggression but I think also in part due to continuous production as opposed to warp cycle based production).
Artosis comments are not a balance comment but a playstyle comment. They similarly make comments about adepts in PVZs, a style they think is basically obsolete yet people keep doing it.
I love Artosis, but he has a serious P bias in SC2 (not so much in BW). He regularly says the game should be balanced around Stats doing well, which is str8 up stupid since he has always suffered from being very incosistent and has the most unambitious playstyle out there to boot. and ignores the fact that P lagged in tournaments because the 2 best P players went to military (Classic and Hero), imagine how Zerg wins would look in KR if Rogue and Dark retired … Exactly. Players like Zest and Trap are good, but are nowhere near the consistency that Classic and Hero showed. Several Kr players like Maru have said this frequently. Anyways I think it is pretty obvious P is slightly overtuned in all of its match ups, if you look at it P is vastly (in a way we have never seen before in SC2) overrepresented in tournaments and GM, the only reason they don’t win as many tournaments is because at the tip top tier of players, there is no Protoss who is at that skill level. Just as an example in DH summer europe, 15 out of 32 players are Protoss, and this has been a constant since last year.
I remember a lot of Forum posters (myself included) said this trend was going to tone down after the meta settles in response to the last balance changes. But here we are 1 year later and it has only gotten worse. It is really sad that the game will probably never get balance patched again.
The thing is, sure, you can build faster but due to warp gates, Protoss production is front loaded. Marauders don’t help unless the Protoss refuses to make Zealots. because of the extreme economy advantage Protoss can get early on. You will eventually breach the front and then Terran is done. And the counter to harass? Expand more. Who cares if you lose the main with 5 other bases and de-centralized production?
Artosis… isnt that the guy who rages at back seat gamers the most? Isnt it a meme to tell him his play style is trash? Lmao… now he’s doing the same to sc2 pros… XD
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Only thing decentralized in Protoss world is GW, it’s easier to protect Tech, Robo and Stargates when they are all in main than if they are scatterd in 4-5 bases.
GW are another matter and it is also advisable to use GW in external bases as part of the simcity for enhancing the static defense.
If I’m lucky I hit GOLD 3 this year
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