Locusceptors from Battlecarrier Lords can now attack air
Battlecarrier Lords (abilities/effects/behavious) don’t exist separately in Editor, except for its skin.
I have readjusted Kerrigan’s Broodlord Stat and added abilities to best represent what I envisioned.
Battlecarrier Lords have become the Ultimate flying units, as potent as 100 Stack Devourer and Level 3 PoA.
Another thing I added was a request from a fellow forumist, I have given Queen Automatic Transfusion which was very useful in keeping Battlecarrier Lords alive.
Although Stettman doesn’t have Queens I have used them in tandem anyways.
With Auto Tranfusion for Kerrigan, they have become more useful in battles but it is worrying that they’re role are now overlapped with Abathur’s Swarm Queens (But this is an experiment).
Makes them extremely powerful. Cool to see but would need to fix a number of Stetmann’s current issue before implementing this. I feel otherwise it’ll push BCL as the one and only build that overshadows others.
Even the current iteration of BCL, while hindered by gas cost, performs very well (with no healing issues obviously). If they can attack air as well, his way more problematic units (Lurker, Baneling, Ultra) will see almost no light of game lol.
I can’t access to Stettman’s BCL using Maguro’s Editor so I had to improvise and make them as closely as possible.
I set up Kerrigan’s Broodlord’s stat and abilities as to BCL as closely as possible.
But I assure you they function as BCL and I enabled them to attack air as you and other people requested.
They consume Egonergy to use Stettmato Cannon.
So they kind of need the JUICE zone. This just shows a powered up Brood Lord… Maybe this will need to be addressed with Maguro so we can do proper testing.
Corruptors still beat air, since BCL doesn’t splash on AA or Stettmato Cannon. Hydras are also still really, really good. Infestors never stopped being good.
Banes are just bad. There’s no way around it. Lurkers are good for DoN defenses. Ultras… are hyper situational. Good vs ground mech or ground toss, but bad vs everything else.
The only other major issues I’d see needing fixing is the damn Stettlagg. Like, holy god the game just crumples under the lag he causes.
So you can’t come to conclusion whether BCL should get Air attack because I didn’t implement Stettalite regenerations and buffs?
I mean BCL do need Egonergy to charge up but wouldn’t really have mattered in real battle anyways becasue Egonergy charges quite quickly inside the Stettalite.
I could have set up the stettalite with Stettman so I could try to simulate more closely as possible, but my intention was to show you how much BCL’s offensive capability would increase.
They come from Corruptors, so that’s covered before you even make a BCL.
If you have swarm-like attack behaviour to draw and tank damage, then you shouldn’t get splash on top. (Carriers, Galleons, Broodlords).
A unit that can attack from afar, distract and tank with interceptors, Yamato erase, and attack air seems just a tad OP.
It’s a nice thing to have and most people would enjoy it if I had to guess (like you do). As I mentioned, before we fix and balance Stetmann’s other compositions, this is just a nice show and tell to affirm - that allowing air targeting puts BCL in an entirely new OP category.
The problem is that with how hefty of a cost they carry (450/450/8), even before research, they are never worth it. You get way more value out of just going mass Hydra/Ling every game, or Hydras or even Hydra/Corruptor. BCLs are pretty bad with how slow they naturally move, eating Egonergy to even auto attack, and still crumple up to anything Air-to-Air related, like Corsairs.
It’s either let them shoot up, or let Stettmato Cannon splash. Corruptors, Hydras, and Lings all do the BCL’s job but better.
I don’t know man, I agree the cost is an issue because I can’t expect every player to have played as long as I have. So I can extrapolate that issue.
However, as is, I play BCL every game. I find them unique, fun, and they work most of all, not any less effective than Hydra/Ling. To that point, I will say, simply Mecha Lings are far more effective on DoN and PP.
And I guess that’s part of the whole issue, Mecha Lings out performs Mecha Ultras by far. Lurkers are a mess, their splash is only “alright” for defending infested, which doesn’t need to be at all (Lings, or just Super Gary alone, or a few BCL works far better and no loss in push power).
Well, I mean, I’m not trying to flaunt here or anything, but I’ve played SC for about 16 years now, both competitively and casually. So I think I can really get behind various balancing ideas and issues. My main thing is that when I look at BCLs and compare them to other capitol-class air units (Brood Lords, Battlecruisers, Carriers, and Tempests), outside of maybe Tempests and Brood Lords, the BCL is outclassed.
For 300/200/6, you can build a Battlecruiser from the base game. It can shoot up and down rapidly, shoot while moving, has access to Tactical Jump, and has Yamato Cannon. Only major upgrade is the Yamato research.
For base 350/250/6, you can build a Carrier that shoots Interceptors, then slowly drift the blimp out of the danger zone. No other major upgrades or abilities required.
For 450/450/8, you get a minor mix that can’t shoot up, can’t splash, and can what? Distract enemy units? Not to mention the added costs of the Stettmato Cannon, and Locusceptor Bays. On top of this, BCs and Carriers don’t eat energy to attack, where the BCL does. On every attack. It’s 5 Egonergy per Broodling, 50 per every Locusceptor built, and then a whopping 100 Egonergy for a Stettmato Cannon that doesn’t even splash. Mind you, it doesn’t need to by Hyperion levels of splash, but just splash the small AoE it already has on targeting.
If you’re against any air-heavy comp, BCLs are literal hot garbage. Instead of wasting the additional 200/200 on research, 300/250 on evolution, and 100/150 on Greater Spire, you get way more value out of the Corruptors. Or even just skip the Corruptors and go mass Hydras.
No matter which way you spin it, BCLs are not cost effective in the slightest. With the double scrap on Lings, and easy to mass produce Hydras, there’s never a reason to make BCLs. Even on maps with large objectives like Scythe and Rifts, Corruptors are still the better option.
So you are insisting that without Anti-Air BCL is doesn’t worth as much it costs? So technically you are “for” the Anti air capability I added that I showed you in video right?
I think that’s your issue, which is your starting point is not objective.
You can’t directly compare 1 unit from 1 commander with another unit from a different commander. Coop is not built to be all units are equally cost effective, but they do aim to be relatively cost effective.
So yeah, in my regards BCL is not at all better than BC (and their variants) or perhaps a Carrier (debatable). Yet, by your own provided insight, they are definitely better than Broodlords, or Tempests, or I’d say even Karax’s carriers. So they do absolutely meet this “relative cost effectiveness”.
And when we consider balance, we must take into consideration what the commander in question can and cannot do. Raynor’s BCs are better than BCL in a direct cost effective comparison but are far in mobility and durability, even perhaps damage output.
Despite Tactical Jump, their movement speed is poor and cannot out escape any chasing engagement easily.
Leading to their durability issue, which the long debate of Medic vs MULE/SCV is highly cost ineffective when accounted for.
Yamato cooldown is long, while BCL can do this twice with much quicker Egonergy regain.
What am I presenting here? Stetmann, as a commander, has many more tools that are at his disposal that favors a unit like BCL. Overcharged HUG, JUICE, and FAST can be granted to BCL in tandem, especially when they are fewer BCL that can be made at one time.
Without taking these factors into consideration, you might as well say any number of things like:
All Zergling variants are not as cost effective as Mecha Zergling, with their double salvage, immortal shield, and their Stetelite boosts.
All units in fact are worse than Brutalisk/Leviathan, with their huge bulk, high damage, super mobility, etc.
You see? Commander consideration is required. UE are highly known for their power, Abathur as a result able to do many things other commanders can. Yet, our standard should be "Let’s make all units as cost effective as UE because UE can so why shouldn’t others. This kind of mentality and support is very flawed.
They beat out Brood Lords and Tempests for two reasons:
Brood Lords only have access to Broodlings. They don’t have the additional firepower of the Locusceptors or the Stettmato Cannon;
Tempests are slow, hard hitting units. Like, REALLY hard hitting. Against something with large numbers, unless kiting properly, they will get shot down, disregarding Artanis’ shell ability.
This does not make them cost effective, it just means that from a gameplay perspective, they’re stronger than these units, but still have major drawbacks that make them not cost effective.
Afterburners exist on Raynor. I willingly left those out, just to look at the base units themselves. Hence why I also didn’t factor in Fenix, Karax, and Raynor’s actual unit costs.
Mobile MULEs are fine to use, since you don’t need 50,000 MULEs to fuel your spam gameplay when going for mass BCs. I never make more than 4 Orbitals when playing Air Raynor, since I have way more than enough Minerals as is.
A fair point.
I don’t factor in the Stettellite boosts, given that fixes a lot of issues with the drawbacks of most of his units, namely Corruptors’ flimsiness, and Hydras’ tenancies to just gobble Egonergy like it’s nobody’s business. …And BCL’s speed problem.
Don’t drag those into here. We all know Abathur is without a doubt the strongest Commander in the game. Brutalisks and Leviathans aren’t compared to other capitol-class units because there are none to compare them to. They’re in a league of their own.
I am not, and never have been, comparing them to Abby’s UEs. I’m looking PURELY at other options available to Stettmann, and other capitol-class ships, and comparing how effective they are against any given player comp, enemy comp, and map. BCLs are just not cost effective. 750/800/8 just to produce one full power BCL is NOT cost effective.
Anyways, I’ve made the test simulation about what happens if Broodcarrier Lord have Anti Air capability and we have for and against.
Although we can agree some of our point is right and others debatable, ultimately we cannot implement this only the developers can.
I’ll keep making simulation videos as accurately as I am able, and hopefully the developers may see this.
They would either buff, nerf, leave them or compensate.
Truthfully I think we debated this long enough.
I’d want a retrial if and when Maguro may update his editor to include Stettmann’s stuff. That way we can properly test how the BCLs function with anti-air capabilities.
Would be nice of course. I did tried my best but I can’t beat the original.
The thing was it was difficult since Stettman’s data strangely doesn’t exist in the Maguro Map.
Why don’t you ask Maguro right now? he was just in the forum 2 hours ago he might still be here?