After upgrading Soul Augmentation research, Supplicant doesn’t die from Ascendant sacrifice. Sacrifice takes 50 life and 100 shields and leaves only 25 hp from Supplicants (Supplicant below 51HP dies).
Ascendants getting one sacrifice is fine as it is but I think this QoL is very much needed for Mechs since they consume lot more minerals than Ascendants.
If Supplicants are sacrificed “twice” players can potentially save at least 75 (150 at most) minerals with each Supplicants.
Maybe this can be an improvement for Prestige 1 exclusively (along with adding sacrifice button for Mech units).
PS. In the video Ascendant only take away health and leave shield alone, but I think they should take away the shield (100 or 125) too (Ultimately, supplicants are sacrificed twice).
Why would this change even be necessary? Supplicants are your one and only mineral dump as Alarak. Having them be fully sacrificed to your Ascendants is perfectly fine. Their lives are meant to be sacrificed for the will of the Highlord.
The problem is that almost everyone is missing the whole design point of Prestige 1. It’s not meant to be a pure mech talent. It’s meant to be a mech-Ascendant hybrid build. Your mech scales alongside of your Ascendants as they cast Sacrifice. You can also manually cast it to beef up your mech as you need to.
The prestige is highlighted to be primary mech-build at least that is its intended concept.
At least I can still harm Alarak to get the result.
It is strange that the devs are promoting mech composition yet forcing players to use Mech/Ascendant hybrid because that is the only manual way.
Alarak’s mech should have sacrifice ability if the prestige was meant to go for mech composition.
And judging from what I see unlike Supplicant/Ascendant build the resource balance will be terrible if you are going for Supplicant/Mech composition because enormous amount of minerals will be spent.
IMO, I would like to go for Supplicant/mech build without worrying too much about resources and not obligated to build Ascendants.
I would like to make full use of a prestige while not being too restricted by its limitations and penalities.
Then play the second or third prestiges. The first one is designed to be a hybrid. Ever since Alarak was introduced, Ascendant/Supplicant, Wrathwalker/Supplicant, and Ascendant/Wrathwalker/Supplicant have been his most viable builds. WW/Asc/Supp is actually a really good, synergistic build where the Ascendants can keep the annoying pests off your giraffes, and your giraffes can smash through objectives that your Ascendants can’t Mind Blast.
The problem I see here with you guys is that you look at it and go “Oh, this is a mech talent!” I was the same way until I started the leveling grind. Then I realized that it was designed to be a hybrid talent to allow scaling on both Ascendants and Wrathwalkers. …Then the bug was introduced to me and it became the abusable mech talent. Seeing as how they patched the bug out, the team wanted it to be a hybrid talent. Not a pure mech talent.
Edit: Just noticed this post is my quads post. Check 'em.
Just realized for P1 you don’t need to attack Alarak (which is risky)…Supplicants don’t need to be sacrificed, they need to die.
So just directly attack the supplicants you need.
It is still best as a mech-ascendant build, because then sacrificed supplicants do double duty, but pure mech should work fine. (assuming it is fixed so that bonuses don’t go to a fully stacked mech)
It’s just silly people complaining about p1, let alone the fixed exploit.
Basically you just have to play Robo or robo/asc as usual, and all of a sudden get extra bonuses tagged onto your Mech.
It’s literally “business as usual with a surprise raise”, but ohhh noooo the humanity lol, must have big raises and bonus. Greed is greed. Buff is still a buff.
You all forget the prestige system is meant to force you to play different.
It is meant as a mech build and unles you can qoute something from bliss them self i stand by my point.
Given there post were they state it is meant to play different, the recent buff to mech and nowwere an indication is is meant as a hybrid build i would say they rushed this one.(you dont even have a buttun to sacrife and if this is intended why not remove it for ascendents?!)
Then you’re clearly not understanding anything of the prestige talent, or of Alarak. Before this talent, it was rare to see a Mech/Ascendant hybrid build. It was usually one or the other, depending upon Mastery and map. With Artificer of Souls, you have a legitimate reason to mix them during any given game, and any given map. Your mech scales alongside of your Ascendants, giving Sacrifice even more value.
If you can’t understand that, then I dunno dude. You need to play more Alarak to understand this, or stop trying to crowbar your obviously wrong opinion into here.
Just send the Supplicants in first. Not only will they die very fast, the enemy won’t target your mech until it’s too late - win-win. You don’t need to sac them to Ascendants at all.
Keep some back for Alarak to eat so he doesn’t eat your walkers and you’re golden.
I’d prefer the Supplicants to be properly sacrificed, as it is right now. I don’t think a change to them is needed. They get sacrificed, they die, and the reasoning behind that is one of the core mechanics of Alarak.
Getting sacrificed first so Alarak lives (“Die Supplicant, so I can live”)
Sacrificed for an Ascendant to be stronger. The stackable buff is so good that it’s perfectly fine to lose a unit worth 75 minerals for.
Sacrificed to beef up a mech unit. While that doesn’t give any defensive bonus, contrary to Power Overwhelming, it’s still a reasonable buff if stacked. In this case, losing Supplicants is also fine.
In any case, Supplicants dying triggers something, or is for a reason. It fits the Tal’darim theme. At the very least, they’re just tanking enemy fire, protecting your other units. For that purpose, both Supplicant upgrades for them are good.
Getting those effects just because they lost 100 health, for example, would feel wrong to me.
I feel like that in some threads, people forget that these are forums and take things personal. It’s just everyone’s opinions. So that makes me want to point out I respect Dehakaburgers idea. I just don’t support it. No hard feelings whatsoever.
Cheers from a fellow player who loves playing Alarak. (P3 fan, by the way)
I’m sure the Co-Op team keeps track of the current Prestige situation, and Alarak may receive some adjustments.
Most of Dehakaburger’s ideas have been interesting to think about, and I have no major ill will toward him. It’s just that this change is 100% not what Alarak needs at all. Supplicants are your mineral dump, and to not have them die is like… Why? That actually gimps your Reliquary of Souls (since they need to die anyway) and your army gets over inflated with poopy little suppies. It’s just better to have them RIP than have them survive on a tiny bit of health.
I think the underlying problem can be resumed in two points:
Alarak ramp up time in a pure Supplicant/Ascendant build is slow, since the stacks on power overwhelming take time to build up, and are also tied to his economy, wich is not that great in particular (not very fast to get full saturation). It feels very thight until the very lategame and unforgiving.
In normal circumstances a stalker/mech build is straight up inferior to a supplicant/ascendant build. The prestige tries to empower the mech or hybrid build, but you can’t warp in as much supplicants than before, so you end with a weaker army anyways.
A hybrid or pure mech build could work if you make them synergize somehow instead of taking the “fuel” of ascendants and applying the buff to other units. I believe another gameplay option (have Alarak removed from the game, thus removing the need to supplicants) and make mech units fill the “powerful death squad Taldarim” fantasy could be worth a shot.
And then what do you do when a squad of anti-armor, Reavers, or Banelings rolls up on your mech? Supplicant fill multiple roles. They’re fuel for Ascendants and Alarak, on top of being bullet sponges. If you’re ever taking a Mech army without Supplicants, then you’re playing Alarak all the way wrong. Especially if Alarak is removed from the equation.
Why Alarak as a commander has to be build and played around a single mechanic? Other commanders can vary their playstyle and still very succesful - and that should be the point of the prestiges, open playstyles than aren’t a nerf or a buff.
Psy gets it. As anyone else who remotely plays Alarak should too.
No matter what build you’re playing (be it Ascendant, Mech, or mixture), you always send the Supplicants in first. It doesn’t matter what composition you are up against or what map you are playing on or who your ally is. This is literally how it is always worked and is meant to work - SUPPLICANT POOR DPS GREAT BULK. So, if you’re not doing that then you’re doing something wrong, in terms of optimally playing Alarak period, no ifs and buts.
So given that baseline, losing Supplicant is just natural. It’s like losing Zealots or Zergling while pushing. While coop allows you to skip some of these entirely, Alarak cannot (unless you’re good enough to solo hero, but then if you are like that you wouldn’t need me to tell you about this basic fact).
Every lost Supplicant boosts a nearby Mech as you play casually and normally. End of story. It doesn’t even matter what the intended design was for A or B or C. You play Alarak? You use Supplicant. You don’t? Well, good luck to you and your pro Alarak skills.