these are facts that the balance team seems to have neglected.
Siege tanks are available before Lurkers, and colossus.
siege tanks require no range upgrades - both lurkers and colossus do.
2 Zerglings kills 1 Marine.
4 zerglings kill 1 zealot
2 marines kill 1 zealot
Marines are core units, zerglings and zealots are generally just methods to spend banked minerals obviously marines will trade better when in defensive positions, as for the siege tank claims, the other races are not necessarilly going to be equal in the turtling field, just like zerg is more efficient at expanding the the other races, however I’ll still bring counter arguments to those, colossus don’t have to siege, siege tanks do, lurkers deal way more aoe then tanks and with upgrades burrow quicker, colossus can move up and down cliffs and can see up cliffs, siege tanks cannot, lurkers benefit from upgrades that benefit other parts of the army, siege tanks (other then in mech) do not.
Man OP, you’re just really on there today with the useless drivel, aren’t you?
i understand your complaint. but i don’t think it’s all that bad. i agree 13 range default is already brutally good. but you can deal with that.
. . . What?
I think I know what you mean, but I don’t think it’s quite right.
find the “counter-arguments” not really good…
no, because it depends on the sitatuon.
opponents in a concave-> colossus are happy.
enemy comps with diff range from low-wide attacking → Lurker is happy.
everything in between → tank is happy. tank is the allrounder, like all T units.
do you mean the armor upgrade?
because if you play ling/bane → ling/hydra/ lurker you are missing the range upgrade…
…tank still has the most range without an upgrade… while the others have gotten usefulness via upgrades.
The only imbalanced oversight is Zergs economy ability at the start of the game which propels them so far ahead of Protoss (since they can’t punish it) that the ONLY viable playstyle is turtle and hope you can get carriers/disruptors.
Terran isn’t usually affected since they can mule spam and keep up on a few bases and they have a sh*t ton of harass options.
The game has gotten stupid since it’s clearly obvious that Zerg are completely OP due to their economy advantage and it’s broken and allows the race to win pretty much EVERY tournament yet for some reason, OMG PROTOSS OP, NERF PROTOSS!!
never used Chrono Boost on nexsus?
since the last balance patch, you rarely see it in the professional level.
as i said in most games the worker count is the same in toss vs zerg…
that’s why it sounds weird when you say zerg is so ahead and you want to change the ecco. does that mean zerg gets better units/ tec?
I think your missing stim is real problem that should been nerfed long time ago.
Range vs melee is problem of unit collision if rules applied as air units then zerglings and zelots would do a lot better.
It would almost balance it out in that regard.
Plus if you count in 1 Minute that’s 3 cro boost produce 10 probes 1 minute . One minute Queen larva injects is 6 drones. Plus’s on top that toss doesn’t lose probs on building or have wait 2 mins to even use that ability.
it’s 12 actually, assuming you use the larvae immediately, since inject is a 30 second cycle. 2 injects is 6 larvae, plus the 3 from the hatchery per 33 seconds is 12 larvae 66 seconds. We’ll round down and say it’s 11 larvae every 60 seconds to keep it even…
That’s… not how chronoboost works.
(12sec) (probe build time) x 2/3 (chronoboost production speed increase)=8.
That means a probe produces every 8 seconds. Chronoboost lasts 20 seconds. 3 chronoboosts is 60 seconds, 60 divided by 8 is 7.5 probes per minute, however since you can’t have half a probe, you instead, at the 60 second mark, only have 7 probes a minute.
Sources:
https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/Hatchery_(Legacy_of_the_Void)
https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/Spawn_Larva
https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/Chrono_Boost_Math
https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/Probe_(Legacy_of_the_Void)
Chronoboost does not make probes instantly. It takes time for Protoss to see the worker count and in the early game if you’re just chrono booting probes then a simple ling rush will end that quickly.
If you try to wall off then a baneling bust or Ravagers (properly microed) will end that as well.
2 hatcheries with inject larvae will pump out 42-48 lings in 1 minute…how is Protoss supposed to stop this early game? They can’t, they just have to let Zerg take over the map and hope they have enough mid-late game to stop them.
Your brain actually allowed you to say something this stupid? I’d fire it. Being brain dead HAS to be better than this.
Really the whole problem with wing liberty why only unit Terran made in finals was marine. That was because of stim add such high dps to small radius unit.
So calling me brain dead just show how dumb you are.
Not knowing marine stim has highest dps in the game.
That is not possible outside of early rushes where the opponent fails to prepare properly, or the cases where opponent is incompetent. Marines require Medivacs at a minimum if the player plans to use Stimpacks, an ability that Marines require to be effective in combat.
Marines are also very vulnerable to splash, which usually requires the Terran player to rely on other units to counter/kill the splash units. That is why Ghosts and Vikings/Liberators are a consistent addition to MMM in TvP, and Widow Mines, Marauders, Tanks, Ghosts, or other units are used in TvZ to help against Zergling/Baneling, Ultralisks (which Marines have very poor DPS against), Lurkers, Brood Lords, etc.
It really doesn’t. Marauders, Cyclones, Colossus, Siege Tanks, Lurkers, Hellbats, and Liberators (ground attack) all have higher DPS (taking supply into account) when used in the right situations. This is excluding all casters and burst damage + cooldown units which may also inflict more damage in combat, but have a limited number of casts or shots that can be used during a single engagement.
Marines also melt very quickly to splash damage because of how squishy they are. They often won’t live to deal much damage if the Terran player doesn’t kill or drain the enemy’s splash units first so that the Bio can actually fight. It should also be noted that Marines are almost useless against units with very high armor, such as Battlecruisers or Ultralisks, so they may require support from other units even when splash is not present.
Bio play is all building up a large number of Marines/Marauders for damage and taking apart or disabling the enemy’s splash units with other tech. That usually takes a lot of work.
LOL no, not even close.
Zealot and Hydralisk have much higher DPS than that of stimmed marine. Zerglings (with adrenaline) have almost exactly the same DPS as stimmed marine.
Hey Gang,
Looks like everybody got the same problem here. Yea I just played 6 rounds just a minute ago and lost all matches. All of the level league are messed up.
Walter Chow
Having the highest DPS on the literal most fragile unit in the game with the most micro potential is called “skill based design balance.”
The onus is on the Terran. If he’s otherworldly fast and otherworldly accurate with his micro, your life will seem like hell, the issue is, you’re not quite smart enough to realize that he’s just plain better than you are.
Terran is the hardest race. Terran under-performs at all levels, from the very bottom rung to the very top. I’ve proven this to beyond what anyone with a brain might consider a “reasonable doubt,” but I know that qualifier doesn’t apply to you.
Well, it depends on what measure youre using. Per unit this is true, but per cost or supply there arent a lot of units that can out-DPS the stim marine.
No, they don’t, as both of them use 2 supply and cost of 2 marines. Marines have the highest dps for its cost/supply, not as unit.
Zerglings have almost 2x dps for its cost/supply than marine
No, they don’t, as zerglings have no range and can’t shoot air. You are right, if we compare zerglings without adrenaline against marines without stim in the field, zerglings would win without problems, after surrounding terran army.
Marines having stim much earlier, than zergs can ever get adrenaline. Marines having medivacs to heal, having range, which lets all marines shoot, while zerglings need to spread around the army to deal any damage (considering that terran army can move too) and having the ability to fight air on top, does make them much more efficient for their supply, as well as grants them 10 dps against air, while zerglings have 0.
Neither of these affect their DPS. Youre right, zerglings dont scale as well and are more situational than the marine, but they are, I think, the only unit that can out DPS the marine either per cost or per supply without using splash damage.