If you have 39 APM you shouldn’t be allowed to play 2v2!!
That means that you have no clue about RTS in general let alone SC2!
You wanna play Sc 2 ladder? Play 1v1 or 4v4!!
No. Stupid suggestion; 2v2 is as much a place to learn as anywhere else, because it doesn’t matter.
If you don’t want to deal with randoms for team members, play with someone.
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I beat SC1, BW, WoL, AoE1, & AoE2 campaigns with this much APM, because I understood units. You do not need APM to have game knowledge or understanding of what to do; though you usually do need a decent amount to perform it.
Lacking game knowledge/execution- as per your other thread- is an issue, I absolutely agree, but there are hardly reasonable ways to gate checks on it.
The best thing I can think up is requiring some number of 1p modes/missions completed, but a lot of those are clearable without actually understanding much at all about how to play a ‘normal’ game of starcraft, or by leveraging trial and error or by using AI-specific cheese.
Remember that if you put too many requirements on random teams, it becomes more likely that you just won’t have random team players, which would be absolutely terrible.
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They have planty to learn 3v3, 4v4, 1v1. A ton of videos of you tube explaining all details you need to learn from bronze to masters.
I just played 2v2, the guy knew nothing of the game besides building roaches, cussed at me all game then left after 8 min.
I won 2v1 at 23 min, but I feel no pleasure. Being cussed by somebody who doesn’t even try to learn the game!
What is your apm right now?
(Beating campaigns is Not enough of going 2v2 ladder, in a game that is being out 14 years)
Ok, so if you don’t like the APM, fine I agree I was frustrating about lossing 2v2s in a row, people don’t know that the Command Center can be upgraded, in Plat.
So, what do you propose?
Play like 40 games of 1v1, before you open 2v2?
Or what do you suggest?
Originally - I don’t think it’s the case now and have no way to tell since I don’t have any alternate accounts I could test this with - they used to have a “practice” mode that you had to play before doing multiplayer online.
This was back in Wings of Liberty. You’d play against other players in that practice mode in a 1v1 setting, and effectively had about 10 games minimum that you had to play before you could join proper multiplayer, though you could play more if you decided not to join straight away. There were a number of downsides to this (not the least of which was the fact that the maps were extremely different than whatever was in 1v1 at the time, and the fact that the game mode played much slower than standard multiplayer for a number of reasons). Also the fact that you couldn’t go back to practice mode was both a good and bad.
This was replaced by needing to win a specific amount of games vs AI (I think) before you could join multiplayer. Obviously, this has it’s own downsides, some of which Eliwan mentioned earlier.
Well lets compare to Dota 2:
“That means you have to play 100-160 normal Dota 2 matches before you even come in touch with ranked matchmaking. While this might sound timeconsuming, it’s nothing if it’s your real account. Valve wants us to have only one Dota 2 account and to keep smurfs out of the game and it’s working pretty well.”
(I know it is true, I’ve seen that you had to do at least 100 Matches to go to rank)
And this throws the stone to someone else. The problem you seek to solve must also work for 3v3 and 4v4 random teams, because otherwise you will simply get someone coming to the forum and creating this exact thread except for 3s/4s.
This is true, but I could watch all these and still fail whatever metric you actually force the game to require.
That depends, what race am I playing and how hard am I trying?
I get wins with 120-140 average apm, but I’ve had plenty of games with average 330-350 apm.
Sure, I’m not saying that it’s necessarily demonstrative of having current competitive levels of skill. It’s a metric and all measurements being used as requirements will have obvious flaws.
Beating the brutal AI was a lot harder than silver players, for example.
There is no solution to this problem.
Force players to complete a little scenario map not dissimilar to the last group of Wings of Liberty challenges - Opening Gambit and Rush Defense. You could probably divide it into, say, 5 maps per race and require completion of 3 of them.
The problem is that you’d have to design such a scenario and map for each race, and you’d have to be willing to adjust it both as meta changes and with game balance changes. That’s a lot of work to consider.
“Practice” mode was implemented by simply being the older sets of ladder maps with added rocks. It was so awful. Beyond the worst, both as an idea and as implemented (as Miro already dissected).
Nope, your first game on a new account can be a multiplayer game, it just can’t be a ranked game. I made a new account in March and accidentally did this.
I don’t really care about this personally, but if a game said “play 100 matches before you can play ranked” I would say “ok i’m never playing ranked byeeeee” and uninstall it after I finished its campaign.
It’s exhausting to prove yes, i in fact care if I just want to play a game sometimes; and this doesn’t even solve the problem because just playing the game does not in fact teach you the game, this is a concept that we’ve known for decades and is why we have the concept of a tutorial.
3v3 and 4v4 is just for fun, I am not expecting anything from the players, even if everybody is knowing what they are doing, it is still going to be a crazy game.
It is just for Fun!
I stand corrected.
TBH Me too; 10 games is one thing, 100 would seem like a slog to get through.
So is 2v2 - remember this is a game that’s solely focused around 1v1.
The reality is that no matter what solution is proposed, there is always going to be downsides to it.
True; tutorials can only do so much, but the unfortunate reality is that - especially in an RTS, and all the more one that’s as evolved as sc2 is - tutorials can only teach you the very, very basics of how to play game, but they don’t (and can’t) Teach you the game, and especially the intricacies that are often only learned through playing.
I have a saying I’m rather fond of, as a teacher myself. “Telling is not Teaching.”
How you present the information to the student is incredibly important, especially given that every student - or in this case, player - learns differently. Auditory, visual, kinaesthetic, big picture, or detail oriented - Each of these learning styles matter.
You can have someone teach you over your shoulder, but in the case of many - and particularly guys - there’s often no substitute for doing. And in a game like sc2, that means playing the game, whether 1v1, 2v2 or any other multiplayer mode.
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I would say your post is the ultimate answer. “Telling is not teaching” is also incredibly important. I did learn what each unit did, but actually playing the game is how I got better. I don’t play VS anymore, but I did come a long way.
Also, games in general are for fun. Taking it personal and being butt hurt because someone else doesn’t play to one’s standards is their own problem.
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No it is not. There are from time to time real torunaments with top players in the world playing couple of days in 2v2 Championship.
There are no such thing in 3v3 or 4v4.
Saying an RTS experience is same in 2v2 compared to 3v3 or 4v4 is the dumbest thing you can say.
Idk find a partner? or play 1v1?
Pretty easy.
I don’t think you can legally do something like this given laws for disabled people and rights but I’m not sure would need to google it alot lol.
I have partners, first I don’t have time to wait, I play when I can. (Everyone has a life and their responsabilities)
Secondly, my only answer why almost no one wants to solve the MMR system, is the same as none wants to get rid of smurfs and map hackers (yes there are still cheaters on ladder);
Is that the SC2 forums is filled with smurfs and cheaters that they create new accounts (72 posts) and of course that they want to play against complete noobs, so they win with any effort.
Are you actually accusing me of being a new account? This is a WoL 2010 SC2 account.
I don’t have many posts because its the forums. Usually nothing good comes from it.
I mean, look at you? 1341? I think I stopped playing half a year ago and played for like a week, and I remember you posting endlessly last year. You should really learn to chill. Or don’t. Its your health, not mine. Its only a video game.
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I didn’t say it was the same. I said it’s primarily a 1v1 game. That’s what it’s built and balanced around, not 2v2, 3v3 or 4v4.
What pro level players play in 2v2 tournaments? Scratch that, what 2v2 tournaments exist for pro players? that will actually have a proper prize pool? None. Further, any 2v2 tournaments that might exist certainly aren’t at the same level as 1v1, nor are they doing random 2s, they’re pre-arranged teams.
What a stupid statement. Nobody likes map hackers or smurfs (Though obviously that doesn’t stop people from doing it.) If it was as simple as saying “no more hackers/smurfs” then it would have been done. But it’s not - it never is, and it’s delusional to think that it is.
Thank you.
Yeah, the reality is that experience is, most often, the best teacher. You can watch as many videos and tutorials as you want, but there’s only so much you can glean from watching and listening without doing. You might know intellectually what to do, but your body doesn’t know what to do or how to react in each individual situations.
APM (generally) means nothing. Low APM is often a symptom of a player who is inexperienced and/or indecisive in their game, not knowing what to do, how to react, what to make etc. But you don’t get better at doing any of that without experiencing it and playing against it.
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Hard to say really. When I look at pros, I see them making random pentagrams when going to make a barracks to wall-off, meanwhile I just move the SCV to the exact location they need to be at to start building. I always thought it was odd to me.
There’s actually a reason for that!
APM during the opening stages often does come down to spamming, however they do that in preparation for later stages of the game where micro and reaction becomes important; it helps keep their hands active and ready to react at a moment’s notice.
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