Idea to improve random

General Discussion
1

It’s fine that there’s random in the game. I like that, playing all races was something I did for two years, it’s a whole lot of fun and really brings diversity into starcraft.

However, when I played random the games were weird, because people really do not like to play vs random. It’s an unfair advantage for the random player from the get go. I know a lot of people are saying that “well, I have to learn 9 matchups.” and “just scout”

However, let’s say it’s a tvt. To scout you need to send the scv out asap, losing you A LOT of mining time, already forcing you behind, if you opened reaper fast expand youre generally just dead in tvt, unless your opponent goes for the same thing. (Or you’re just tons better than your opponent.)

So either way the random player gets an unfair advantage, which could potentially be game ending, by just picking the race random, due to the rng.

The easy fix, and probably something that has been mentioned a lot of times, is when youre loading up a game, it tells your race. Thus you get to play that matchup ordinary. (I actually quit playing random because all the games were so weird, people didn’t play standard, so many cheeses, a lot of people raging. When I told my race people didn’t trust me and just did a lot of proxies (more than usual) cannon rushes, 12 pools, et cetera)

I honestly think this should be taken seriously by the sc2 devs. Playing random is your choice, and shouldnt affect other players. There’s 9 matchups in the game. And it’s hard enough to learn 3, I realise that. But, learning 3 and then youre faced with just pure rng, it’s just not something I believe belongs in an RTS.

8 Likes
2

Completely agree. I think showing the race on the load screen would produce better games for both players. It would make it hard for the random player compared to what they currently experience, but being a good random player is a often a badge of honor. “I’m good with all races”. So, having all the match-ups be “legit” would only increase that respect.

I’d also propose another addition. Instead of playing “random” with one MMR, I’d love an option that just pre-selects my race and then uses the three MMR. Just a time saver and not a replacement for “random” as a race. It would be a way to experience the three races and help you level them up until they are close enough that you can truly try playing as a “Random”.

5 Likes
3

I think Random should only face random that way they could experience more randomness they enjoy.

1 Like
4

Whatever you want

I play random for variety not because “some advantage” it may have

2 Likes
5

Information is quite literally the only advantage of playing Random; I do not approve of removing it.
If all you have to do to counter it is spend a little mining time on scouting, then you’re still way ahead. If reaper opening is too risky against Random, then don’t open reaper. Just like you wouldn’t vs. Terran.
Against any other race, you adapt your strategies, why not against Random?

6

SC2 is based on information. We have builds for certain matchups, sending out a worker at the very start of the game will cost you A LOT of minerals.
Look at it this way: In a TvX / ZvX / PvX the random players advantage is killing a worker at the very start of the game by picking the race random, in order to feel safe vs whatever race the random player is playing, and then hope that you dont get completely blindsighted by lets say a zvz where you go hatch first. By the time your drone would go to the opposite side of the map on lets say acropolis, it takes you 40 seconds to reach your opponents base and check what race it is.

A single worker mines 39-45 minerals each minute, this means that in the time you check what race it is, and immediately go back, you would of lost 52-60 minerals at the 80 second mark. And that’s only if you’re sending it back right away. If it’s a tvp you probably want to keep it around because you need to see what tech the protoss is going for / what units gas timings etc. This ads up.

You might reply: Bah! what’s 52-60 minerals in the early game?
If it’s a mirror matchup esspecially, it’s a HUGE deal. Your opponent will get faster tech, faster expansion, faster units everything will just be faster. Because your production will be later / rax / gate / hatch / pool / cyber so and so.

This is why when you play vs random your rax feels so late, and everything is just off.

This is why people cheese vs random, because playing vs random just throws off your builds entirely.

2 Likes
7

I think an underlying issue is that people who lose to random players have their ego hurt because they should feel as though their main race should beat someone who can play all 3 races, and when they lose, they feel bad.

Again, there is a reason you never see pros choose random in a tournament. Clearly not an OP race.

2 Likes
8

Same here but I think it’s sort of important to have this discussion. It’s a significant advantage.

1 Like
9

So this kind of arguement is pretty prevalent on this forum.
You immediately jump the gun that the reason I’m making this arguement is because I “lost a game on ladder, and therefor salty”
Instead of taking it as an actual objective criticism and an idea to make the game better

It’s not about making the game harder, it’s about removing RNG.
RNG in an RTS is something that should not be wanted, by anyone.

1 Like
10

Oh look, this topic again.

It’s not going to change folks. Get over it.

1 Like
11

I never said it was objectively the reason. However, I have a strong suspicion that people get salty when they lose to random because they don’t like that someone who can play all 3 races beat their main race.

Random is certainly not OP.

If you’re so against RNG, you should be fighting against Terran RNG when SCVs take random building routing when constructing structures.

12

I mean if you wanted to keep playing random and not give yourself an advantage at the start just tell your opponent what race you got. I do it and I have normal games when I play random. Every now and then someone might not trust me but thats their fault, I gave them the info.

13

Doesn’t really negate the advantage, because randoms lie. (I think like 1/3 lie.) You are forced to scout anyways. So, because people lying, it’s not “their fault” because you can give them misinformation.

I think if you played all three races without random, you’d see your winrate drop drastically.

14

My random isn’t better than when I play individuals races (its all roughly the same). You have to remember, I have to prepare to play my opponent without knowing my own race at the start so my own preparation is halted as well.

15

Well, sometimes. If you get a race specific hint then you know which race you are on the loading screen. If you get a generic one, then thats true.

I know from experience that my winrate with zerg, dropped drastically when I stopped playing random. Basically because my mmr was inflated with protoss and terran, and zerg is the race Ive played the least by far, yet due to the advantage I got, I was able to win games, esspecially in zvz.

Id like to start playing random again, I just wish they implimented this change.

16

All I know is that pro players don’t use random because whatever advantage it may give, isn’t enough to ever justify using it in serious situations. Its not really “OP”, but maybe simply annoying for most people.

17

Well, being a random proplayer means going up against people like maru with an “offrace” there has been some really high level players who played Random like Apollo.

However, if you take a look at Scarlett, she offraces quite a bit, but her offraces are nowhere near her zerg.

If anyone were skilled enough with all three races to be at a proplayer level, then we could talk about that.

However, being able to play all races in diamond / masters league, then you face a mirror matchup you might not of won if it was a mirror matchup, but because of random he/she went for a weird build and you got a win out of it.

^ This can be true in all matchups. It’s honestly just the loading screen that makes the entire random thing a bit weird.

18

Gumiho has played in GSL as random.

Maybe, but leagues outside of GM have so many other issues to improve on that it’s only one simplistic factor.

19

No, I don’t like how someone can have lings in my base because I used a PvP wall, not a PvZ wall. And I don’t like how someone just masses stalkers in PvP and kills all my buildings because I made a PvZ wall.

I don’t like how I lose TvP because I opened hellion banshee against blink, and how I lose TvZ because I opened anything other than hellion banshee.

I don’t like how I die to a ZvZ 12 pool because I didn’t 14 pool myself, and I don’t like how I die in ZvT because I DID 14 pool and have a bunch of random lings that do literally nothing.

2 Likes
20

I don’t agree with that at all. Most random players don’t say anything at all. Of the ones that do tell me their race I’d say like maybe 1 person has ever lied to me about what race they got.

My win rate might drop very slightly but not because people know what race I am. Im a D1 toss, D2 zerg, D3 terran, and D3 rando. So If I played toss or zerg its a given that I would lose more because when I play rando I’m playing against people worse than me. Terran would be the same win rate.