I hate playing Brutal because people have short fuse

I’m someone who plays a lot, but I’m not that good. Hard is too easy for me and I can handle Brutal, but I’m just not super quick like some people. Lately, I’ve gotten a lot of angry partners who expect me to be as good as they are and whenever I’m not, they get on a rant and curse me out. They destroy my base and then proceed to go on chat and barrage me (often with racism…sometimes they get the race wrong). This happens a lot.

I guess what I’m saying is, I play co-op for fun and I believe it’s not something for competition. When I play Hard mode, I have a lot of newbies. I carry them if they’re not good. I don’t barrage them and destroy their base. I hate playing Brutal because players there think differently. They are cocky and bullies. If someone’s not as good as you and you’re carrying them, don’t destroy their base. I wouldn’t do that when there’s a skill disparity. I feel like these players are from competition and bring their aggression to co-op. “I build my base faster than you!” Man, shut up.

End rant.

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I’m really sorry you’ve had this experience :pensive:. It’s a pretty tough call to know the best path forward. Perhaps staying on Hard difficulty is best or looking for someone to party with when doing Brutal?

When you say that, how often are we talking about?

It sounds like you’re in a place currently where your skills might not quite be there (if this is happening that often). Or you had a bad run in by chance and hit some real D-bags.

I have played tens of thousands of games on Brutal alone. I can tell you that the behaviour you highlight is of less than 1% if not fewer.

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I’m willing to say/hope that that’s bad luck talking, but still sucks for the experience.

There’s definitely people who need to learn how to relax and just play the game. But personally, I’ve found the worst to be only a few trolls and a handful of people who overestimate themselves and lash out at the other player.

If someone is barraging you with racism and teamkilling and being a bad actor i’d legit block and report and move on so you don’t see them again.

And it seems like blocking seems to prevent future coop matchups as after i blocked a mengsk minute 1 teamkiller i don’t think i noticed it happening minute one again.

That said, it does seem like people’s experiences can greatly vary. I know myself that when i play my main i tend to heal and clear and my main commander is easily strong at adapting to situations and used to managing two strong split forces at once. People rarely talk other than usually a gl hf, gg/ gg wp at the end of a game.

People rarely quit but when i play a p2 or army karax to level or even a p0 abathur with not godly but basic lures, sure i might not be as fast as my main. (Its hard to make a decent karax directly faster than a directly faster zeratul/tych/dehaka).

I notice that although i can hold my own leveling that some people will quit on dumb details or like the instaquit rate goes from like 1% to like 10-20% off a karax or abathur wrapper alone.

I don’t consider p0 abathur weak but he takes like a few lures to the first brutalisk to get going then with unlimited viper kidnaps and op abilities and 15 second teleports, he can like easily watch the entire map with vision nests or still camp ramps for extra biomass.

But people will go "You isnt supposed to make one roach! !!! Make 200!!! " (brutalisk luring) “OMG WHY are u letting tower b attacked?” (luring). Etc.

Honestly the games at this point. They might be cheesier but base brutal is about learning to beat it once. Then every game is autopilot and while people will always trash misran raynors. Pretty much all the minor stuff like stutter step. Micro, stim. Move damaged marines /symbotites to the back to split damage, transfered into being better able to control and micro individual units.

Tab swapping hyperion to marines made it easier to target multiple spellcasters like nova / viper brutalisk etc. But no matter.

Some people will judge commander choices they don’t honestlty even play right. and especially in hard.

Theres a paradox where most people who play hard don’t feel flexible in mobility or covering multiple bases or don’t know the basics of comps yet. And thats fine. But if they’re racist or toxic, it actually does seem to improve matchups to block the uber toxic.

But while toxicity is definitely a them issue, it might be good to look at commander comps like teamliquid/tl or sc2 coop guides tp get basic build orders.
Ex: teamliquid sc2 coop guides
https://tl.net/forum/starcraft-2/527054-co-op-commander-guide-kerrigan

Some basic anyone friendly comps.
Artanis: Mass dragoon and spin zealots with a nit of minimal micro to move depleted shield dragoons to the back. Easy simple f2a build.

They got upgrades post launch. Guardian shield is noob friendly. Calldowns while limited, can poke smaller enemies, shield, or nuke a base.

P1/Good mule p0 raynor: p1 is sturdy and new player friendly. P0 can easily max further and have more “redeployment ease mobility” (replacing dead soldiers as ‘mobility’), but usually uses more apm and leaves him vulnerable without micro to siege tank fire.

Tychus for 1-90. His masteries are known to do little to 15% attack speed of nothing yet he can still master chain fire blaze, mind control vega and ability use commanders.

Decent all rounder build is Tych, rattlesnake, sam(low money/ dps) or Sirius ( 5 sec aoe fear or explosive turrets to kill swarmlings).

o my p0/p3 prefered upgrade order goes: S: 2x revitalizer healing, +50 dmg grenade, aoe on death turrets vs zerglings or aoe sirius fear for others, max tychus or sirius (mobile dps vs static def), max the other etc.

Basic variants are blaze chainfires with spread fire on death + 25 dps light ± 2x splash size (qol/ai reliability)

Vega hard counters battlecruiser/liberator comps. I think the aoe confusion /bring to ground majorly neuters them.

Cannonball is literally a self reviving snowballing crit tank who hard counters reavers. You tend to want damage split out over focused on 1 for revitalizer healing but his only downside is he’s always solid but usually slower than another option. But he’s not unviable at all. Sometimes i use him late on part and parcel as a 1 upgrade revivetank to assault the last base easily and add crit upgrades for fun on the boss.

Zeratul gets auto gas and a hero unit and pretty much every unit is brutal viable. Stalker shieldguards covers gas/minerals. Cannons are a endless easy keybind for projected army. His arrays are endless mobility but a pain to set up. You have to scavenger hunt but he’s strong but kinda boring to play.

Dehaka benefits greatly from micro but can yoshi and beat comps off mass self reviving mutalisks or the haka. P1 aoe heals. P2 is strong cds, p3 is two.

Find a commander you enjoy playing. Block/report severe toxics if needed to avoid matching up again. Good luck, have fun!

I don’t think the Block Comunication or Report Player functions to block them from matching up.

It’s just that the chances of them matching with you is low to begin with.

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Who knows yeah. It’s a small world and rare to meet people again to begin with. But i like doing it anyways just since placebo or not, it seems to help and if there’s like anything hidden that lowers the chances of them matching up again or just muting them it seems nice.

I know the mengsk teamkiller was just some toolbag quing for like 3 games straight in a off hour and after i did it, i don’t think i saw them again but then again the sample size is too low to know or care really. You can’t really know if it does anything, but it doesn’t seem to hurt either.

People will have rumors or gossip of it blocking the person or putting them on the lowest priority, but until or unless blizzard would release a statement saying it did something / didn’t do anything, i wouldn’t be surprised.

They did have a feature in overwatch that DID block you from seeing blocked players as enemy or ally in matches i think.

But they did have to change it to just keep them from matching into your team since people would block certain grandmaster snipers, just to avoid spending the game headshot by them haha. It probably wouldn’t be a stretch for them to have the tech already to avoid matching into blocked players as allies, but honestly who knows.

It only seems like the number of teamkillers went from a odd 1% sprinkle here and there to like 0% after a couple blocks of the few or obvious noobs a clicking their own units and vega mced units.

Either way, you can’t control other people, only you. And sometimes other people are iffy to begin with anyways who’ll say abathur isn’t meant to cluster his early biomass to start brutalisks or lure with buildings. or that p2 karax is ONLY meant to build cannons on a attack map.

The best thing is to just play at whatever level you enjoy and find comfortable on, and if you feel comfortable carrying you can relax a bit more but everyone generally just has a learning curve and improves over time. The longer you play coop, the longer you get used to Amon’s timings, comps, commander counters and just comfort with builds and experience/apm in general.

I’ve played with these elitists before. Even if they’re 1% they’re a real downer that I don’t really main in playing brutal even if I can hold my own. The last one laughed at me coz I didn’t fast expand the right way, these people need to realize this ain’t a competitive mode and it’s alright for people to not nail the timings set by “coop authorities” as long as you’re not dead weight I would gladly support you as a partner. I’m glad blizz never got around to implementing leaderboards or these airheads would probably proliferate.

What is good about coop - that you can just leave from toxic ally and you won’t have any penalty. So feel free about this)

And remember - if someone needs to write things like this, it is not because he is good)

I think I’ve only had one guy target my base at the start of the game, and that was just hilarious. I just left and queued up again. Other than that, I don’t think I’ve ever been friendly fire’d aside from jokes. Hopefully I don’t jinx myself :rofl:
For reference, I’m ascension level 218? That’s a lot of games.
Griefing has basically never happened to me before.

As someone who gets angry with dead weight allies - here’s my completely personal take on this. If you pull at least half your weight, I’m happy. I’ll say gg and all.
If you play like you don’t belong in brutal/+, I’m not going to say anything to you, or I will tell you to get off this difficulty.

Now, what do I consider dead weight? It’s when I can tell you’re not making any fighting units. I know you’re floating 4k+ resources 10 minutes into the game while I’m still pumping every ounce of mineral and gas up until the end of a very long 30 minute mission that should have ended 10 minutes ago.

In your own words, I play co-op for fun and I believe it’s not something for competition. However, if you (random person not you specifically) are a noob or are bad at the game, you do not belong in brutal/+. You need to get off the highest difficulty because you are ruining the experience for other players. Not everyone can carry brutal+. Not everyone can solo brutal. People can’t drop their ego and take the lighter difficulty. That’s where my anger comes in.

Why are you (again generally speaking) queuing up for brutal/+ knowing full well you are going to get carried by your ally every single game? People who don’t have a measure on their skill level are, in my opinion, EXTREMELY selfish and narcissistic. These kinds of people make my blood boil, and having to put up with it for up to 30 minutes puts me in a real sour mood.

I personally do not resort to griefing. I think it’s pointless, because the goal is to beat the co-op mission, not your teammate. The outcome is the same anyway whether you grief your teammate or not - you lose the game. It’s all a waste of time. If I am losing, I just curse at my teammate once to get off brutal/+ and queue up for the next game.

HOWEVER - I do curse anyone that plays in this difficulty and acts as dead weight. I am going to tell you right now I am very generous about this. The only people I consider dead weights are the ones who don’t queue up their first worker 1 minute into the game, don’t have a standing army by the 15 minute mark, or actively do not participate in team effort missions like locks/shards/whatever. I don’t care if you are bad as long as you make units. I don’t care too much about how much army you have earlier on as long as you are aware of what’s going on in the game. Trust me when I say it takes A LOT to set me off.

So I fully understand why some people get angry at weak allies. It’s frustrating. People want to relax when they get home and play co-op. The last thing they want is to waste 10 minutes or more alongside someone with a low sense of awareness.

I have pretty much never come across an angry ally. It’s an extremely rare case in my eyes, but based on what you have said, it seems to be a common? problem. This leads me to believe either you are severely overestimating your capabilities or the people you are matched with can barely hold their own ground, so they are frustrated when they realize this is going to be a tough game.

Just FYI - I don’t say anything racist or attack any other characteristic irrelevant to the game. When I have something to say, it’s directly related to the game at hand. With that being said, I think saying something out of line like a racist remark is completely uncalled for. Hopefully what you’re experiencing is rare and it doesn’t take you entirely out of co-op.

One last note - if by some random chance you’ve been on the receiving end of my rant, you completely deserve it, and I hope you either drop to a lower difficulty indefinitely or quit forever. I save my severe words for the worst of the worst, and if you find yourself hearing it from me, you better take it to heart. Sorry if that sounds toxic, but it’s the truth (AGAIN - only if you have heard it from me personally). Lower difficulties exist for a reason. My anger in this regard is completely justified, along with anyone else who has to deal with the kind of “teammate” that wants to stare at his screen while his ally has to do all the work. Respect is a privilege, not a right. You lose it when you have no respect for others.

Hmm… like others it’s really rare I get rude allies.

Is it possible an ally has pinged to get your attention, like to claim a lock, and you’ve just ignored or said “stop pinging I’ll come when I feel like it”? Or maybe you’ve gotten snarky with someone because they’re not leaving things for you to clear?

If someone is much better than you are the best thing to do is "co-op"erate. Or ask nicely if you want something specific. I’m sure many would be happy to help you get better or help you have a share of the fun in crushing Amon.

Edit: It’s also possible you’re getting matched with big-ego-low-skill players who think the only reason they ever lose is because their ally sucks. Should also be rare.

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Check out starcraft2coop website for build orders and similar, it helps a lot.

If someone is rude just leave and perhaps save/memorize their name somewhere so if you get them again just leave again.
There is no other solution, especially if you want to preserve sanity.

I’ve played a lot of games, and aside from ones where I know I’ve played bad, I haven’t ran into this. Just players that either troll by suiciding their units (or trying to kill mine), average players, or players who do bad things like making bad units and having bad macro.

At worst, I tell my allies what they can do better to improve near the end of the game. Usually it’s lot on “practice macro” or “next time you shouldn’t use x unit, use y instead.” Just yesterday I had a Lv8 P2 Alarak try and tell me that Vanguards were a good unit, lmao. They had their ““army”” run over by Roach/Hydra/Ultra/Infestor and I had to carry them to victory on TotP.
Skill levels vary, game knowledge varies, and peoples’ personalities vary. Unless you’re excessively slow at building any sort of army, you probably just ran into a bunch of tools.

Is it really trolling if you try to kill Alarak a few seconds before the final objective ends?

Alarak berates the partner during the whole game, and seeing that whole Tal’darim army explode as he consumes them to stay alive is so god damn hilarious :smiley:

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It’s minorly trollish. I know that I don’t appreciate seeing it, regardless of the point in the game.

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Same, it’s especially annoying when you’ve played a very clean game. Then they kill a bunch of things before the end.

Sure the victory is there, but when I review stats and such to see my own performance then it’s out of whack.

After all, often it is the only thing that is of value (self improvement). And it becomes that much harder to tell later when you review a replay and the overlay stats and such of something a week ago.

All it takes is for this player being carried all game long to not being a dinkus… lol. They got their lawlz I suppose.

Kinda reminds me of a hilarious clip from a parody video where they have.

“Now introducing the scum browser to overwatch! this feature will allow you to search for players you hate to harass them until they quit the game! With sorting features like “spray over my sprays”, “bastions mains”, or “hits the spawn room ball off the table”, we hope this feature will allow you to harass enemy teammates until they quit the game! We think that this experience making Lifelong enemies enhances the game and we hope to see you soon our next update!”

:rofl:

Seriously though, sc2 is just a coop game and while sc2 definitely has a skill curve for real and almost endless micro ways to improve. I do kinda think like players who take toxicity into a game are a bit over, much less racism and player harassment.

I think there’s definitely a line where, a player is toxic, but not good enough to solo or carry a base brutal and doesn’t feel like they should be expected to carry a COOP, that’s fair enough.

But also at the same time. If you’re good enough or comfortable to at least like cover the map eventually, you don’t have to really give a crap about what the other person is doing as long as your comfortable. Sure people will laud and when all things are equal, there’s pretty much not a lot of ways to make a slow rampup commander like 10-18 minutes of karax outspeed a 3 minute Tychus/kerrigan/Dehaka/zeratul (brutal not brutal+ where immune to mutators like beam stunlocks are considered)

But people should be welcoming to new players and playing on difficulties they feel comfortable on. And there’s really no shame starting wherever you like to play best if you can handle the que times. Sc2 is mostly a mix of a knowledge game and a apm game.

Sure it helps to play what you find comfortable, but after a while, you should be able to move over to brutal comfortably as soon as you find or even learn a basic build. As mentioned, player toxicity is never okay lmao and it’s just a coop game.

But very basic comps like Artanis Mass dragoon + self regen upgrades spinlots for aoe with p0/p3 for ez fast expand or guardian shields are pretty easy to play comps. As well as P1 bio raynor, or even kerrigan with a few nydus worm keybinds.

Always remember some basic stuff like, your first 2 workers a node mining (14/21, 12/18), etc. Are like 2x more effective than the third, so moving workers from your first expansion to second expansion can help you mine a extra 1000 minerals. And the same applies with gas too (though the 3rd are usually still more valuable, ESPECIALLY on far gases where you don’t see a brief wait but instant enter. If they wait even a short blip, it’s saturated. If they insta enter, you can add a 4th worker if you want.)

Just remember basic stuff like, Map awareness (you can see attack waves on the map), basic build orders. (Most commanders always build workers unless deliberately doing self imposed challenges or abathur armies / etc).

It helps to use calldowns to protect your ally. No one expects you to be apm jesus but map chat often varies highly with how you play or maybe what commander you pick.

(No one seems to quit on Tychus healing or opening their bases for them. Some people instaquit on map load upon seeing a karax/abathur even if it’s a easy void thrashing for them. )

Also remember, you don’t have to, but control groups greatly increase upgrade time and worker management as well. Everyone usually has their own, but shift +1-9 to assign groups, alt + 1-9 to isolate groups makes everything easier to react to. Especially on commanders with multiple research buildings.

If you need a commander to level up 1-90, Tychus and zeratul as always are notoriously strong commanders with pretty unimportant masteries. To the point leveling tychus for prestiege hardly feels different than normal play while commanders like pre 90 abathur can play DRASTICALLY different without like, +100% souped up symbotites. Tychus has like… +15% fire rate to just guns… Obviously +100% more shields and like 3x more toxic mines vs a 15% fire rate that’s like a 1-4 marine dps difference isn’t that big.

Remember every commander can do a lot of great work and even p0 raynor. scourge of pugs misplaying to 0/200 armies into siege tank fire is still a f2p commander capable of speedrunning and carrying too. (Mass mules ± optional mass vultures and micro {Stutter step, aoe/storm dodges, tank sniping with dusk wings or even lazy suicide depleted vultures charging in, laying mines as 30-75 mineral bait, detonating tanks, etc. }

Sc2 can be imposing, but don’t let that discourage you from giving it a try, having fun, and blocking a few toxics if you need. Just have fun, but don’t try to be a burden to the ally or play your first lvl 1 on brutal if you don’t know a commander yet. Good luck, and have fun!

On one hand, bullying people for being not as expected good is bad thing.
On other hand, ruining games for people is bad thing.
There is a floating delicate balance between people not being jerks and also you not contributing to giving them reasons to be.
I also recommend you to remember why people behave like that in the first place – because they put effort and expect it to yield a reward, instead of others to drag them down. That’s a bane of any team game.

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