in sc1 hydars were basic units and queens were advanced units now its the opposite. that is just really weird
How did this get upvoted? Typical ZvP is hyrda ling bane.
Stop the madness.
Hydras are currently broken .
Queens do not replace hydras , not even close . Queens are a nessacry unit that well defines the race .
Hydras , were replaced by roachs and balines , for the most part .
But neither unit is AA .
My complaint is that hydra , is a second tier unit that cost a second tier unit but dose not out preform set of marriens .
And in my opinion , should be more comparable to a non flying Viking .
Of course , it would be accectable , if they would jusy lower the vespine cost of hydra from 50 to 25 , but relaisticly 0 as that presntly a hyrda is just 2 , much more expesnsive , not as upgradeable . Not as swarmable , not as replaceable , marriens .
They do have a splash dammage i think , this is noteable , but , is that worth the vespine ?
Hydra is supposed to be an eleite infantry unit . But its fraglie and expensive for what it dose .
The only role hydra reiably plays is support for roach.
Its suppost to work well with ling hyrda , but i dont think to many fear ling hydra .
Hydras are just expenisve marriens , that dont get medivacs . There stats are litterly exact of 2 marriens .
But cost 50 vespine
With that thinking , marriens are top tier best unit in the game .
Im not up set with that , some.one has to take that title , i just want my unit updated
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Just tried it in the unit tester out of curiosity.
1 hydra + no upgrades vs
2 marines + no upgrades
Winner: Hydra, with 24 life left
1 hydra + no upgrades vs
2 marines + combat shield
Winner: Hydra, with 9 life left
1 hydra + no upgrades vs
2 marines + combat shield + stim
Winner: 1 marine with 8 life left
1 hydra +3/+3 + grooved spines vs
2 marines +3/+3 + combat shield + stim
Winner: hydra with 2 life left
Conclusion - they are significantly better than 2 marines. The question is are they 50 gas better?
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Update -
1 hydra + no upgrades
1 marauder + no upgrades
Winner: hydra
1 hydra + no upgrades
1 marauder + stim
Winner: hydra
1 hydra +3/+3 + grooved
1 marauder +3/+3 + stim
Winner: hydra
The more I look at this the more I am really having trouble seeing how hydras are either “broken” or “useless” compared to terran infantry
3 Likes
Problem with ur test wants u start using real number marines destroy hydras do 10 and 20.
Without stim it’s slightly in hydras favor but once stim is activated it’s so one sided with out support units like viper or infestor. Marines win,
What really needs to happen is have hydras speed equal marines stim speed.
What this will do give hydras micro ability to defeat stim marine by stutter stepping.
According to Serral, the hydralisk is the most useless unit in the game.
Because it has no micro ability so you can’t make do better their slow so they can’t help defend against air that doesn’t a move.
Their dps is ok but melt against any aoe so they come out right everyone has siege.
They cost 50 gas that hog up resources. Only way fix them is give massive boost in speed.
Maybe give slither so they produce creep. So they can actually be worth 50 gas.
4.09 movespeed unupgraded on creep, 5.09 move-speed upgraded on creep. Stimmed Marines have a move speed of 4.72. They’re perfectly microable. Stutter-stepping and splitting is something that you can absolutely do.
They don’t need this at all.
3 Likes
See I really hate these arguments assumption is there be creep.
Only very few pros would fight on creep and that is medivac harassment
Most time siege outside creep scan no more creep.
Hydras anti air unit it’s only offensive unit but since has no speed and only slightly faster on creep against stim marine.
Only time marine chase on creep against hydras if it’s right by hatch. Which Terran either kill hydras or hatch.
Hydras can’t push siege line they melt. They can’t chase air.
Why would you not assume that there’s creep when Zerg WANTS to fight on creep unless they’re directly attacking a base themselves. It’s illogical not to assume. And frankly even without creep, they’re still faster than standard with 3.93 move speed, enough to at least do basic kiting.
I didn’t realise Zerg players don’t creep spread.
Sure, by themselves. But there’s a reason that Hydra Ling Bane is the standard composition. It’s good and it’s a good unit that isn’t a dead end tech tree anymore.
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Reason it’s bad to assume creep is fact you can’t denie scan and everyone Terran Army can slow siege push so 90% are fought on edge creep and if Zerg being offensive then there is no creep.
Since creep can only be used as defensive that’s why it’s poor mechanic for race be mobile yet they all based on this stupid mechanic.
Creep is defensive tool so is speed boost not that good as defensive tool.
How often do you find self on creep trying fight Zerg. You only engage if you have upper hand.
Look at all gimmicks Zerg can add creep it’s slow and can only be applied small areas.
To assume Zerg creep fight outside defense is just silly and not being honest.
It be one thing if scan didn’t detect stealth easily denie raven from detected. There be couple games we’re I was able knock out orbital command centers where my creep be protected.
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I tested with marines (and marauders) stimmed before attacking. The hydra wins in almost all situations.
I think problem size since marines very small they can easily stack. So if u just doing 2 pop then of course hydras win.
Marines are closest unit stacks that not air .
Comparing a single muta to turret is what u dong now compare 30 mutas to one turret.
10 hydras vs 20 marines 3/3 stimed.
First, “1 Hydra vs 2 marines” wasn’t MY comparison, it was RookClayBard’s. All I did was plug it into the unit tester out of curiosity.
Second, I cannot run the game right now.
Third, you keep changing what you think the problem is in each post.
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Yes,
20 marines +3/+3 + combat shield + stim
10 hydras +3/+3 + muscular + grooved
Winner: 7 orange marines
10 marauders +3/+3 + concussive + stim
10 hydras +3/+3 + muscular + grooved
Winner: 5 yellow hydras
Marine is the better glass cannon, in the battle Hydra vs Marine. better stacking (units size), better dps.
but Marine are also more glass cannon in point vulnerability. especially with aoe, the stacking effect is worse. Hydra have more hp.
Therefore the question how behave Hydra/Marine vs other units/comp/races.
And then you can ask again is 50 gas appropriate / too much.
Stim also allows additional options from only dmg boost.
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More correct comparison would be to add Zerglings and Medivacs.
“the whole is more than the sum of its parts” (c)
Plus you can get armies that cost the same in terms of gas and minerals.
Zerglings act as both “tank” and damage dealer (as long as they can surround marines or as long as they make Terran splash to be wasted on just a couple of zerglings*) and role of Medivacs is obvious. Hydra role is that of a damage dealer, but not a squishy one.
Of course in real game there are also banelings, WMs and/or tanks present and result of such engagement depends on what level of control Terran have.
*unlike Zerg Terran don’t have “hold fire” button, however that would probably be OP because unreliablity of Terran splash and its friendly fire are part of what makes it balanced
Its not that simple. From my experience when ball of Hydras is big enough they will eat Marine-Medivac. However if it comes to marines vs hydra it means that Zerg already used his banes and lings, marines are injured, medivacs might be out of mana, Zerg might stutter step forward and target fire Medivacs, etc.
It also have something to do with Hydra having higher range than Marine, as well as having much more hp which in turns means that DPS of Hydra ball decreases slower than DPS of Marines ball (due to Hydro not getting killed as quickly as Marines), upgrade advantage/disadvantage matters very strongly, etc.
There are just plenty of varibles that affect the battle.
2 Likes
you did somevery good home work , the reason hydra wins in these small test is cause its cool down is 0.02 seconds faster , as in it reloads just a tiny bit faster . so it dose the 12 damage just so sneakily faster
hydra are the natural counter too marauder , im not faulting it for its counter capasity , but for its over all useful ness in the game and for zerg for as much as they are charging for it .
hydra used to be a 1 supply unit , at 25 gas . in sc2 it got nerfed hard to 2 supply and 50 gas , it had for a short time more health but that was toooo much .
you , 2 marrine 1 hydra tests are great
but that is 2 supply 100 minerals tier 1 DPS unit , VS 2 supply 100 minerals 50 gas tier 2 DPS unit .
now how much is gas worth ? id say 2-3x more than mineral , not to mention that the unit is tier 2
hydra is supposed to be the marine of the zerg . but it is only filing the role of an ( extra ) delicate support unit , like , Colossi , or dark Templar .
hydra for there cost makes them a gamble .
and lings add up, cant just throw them away , and cost larve , larve cost zerg time and APM .
lings are great at what they do , but hydra is not .
hydra was nerfed casue in SC 1 on could mass hydra and do prdy well . but that the point of a maco run amy .
but now that there are soooooo many more units , Hydra needs to be updated
they need to choose weather to make hydra Maco , or Micro .
i vote macro . lower the gas to 25 and keep its cool down where it is , increase its speed to that of a little slower than the ( as an upgrade ) speed ling ,
OR maybe little bit faster health regen , maybe like mutas . ,or 90 health like it should have or something . or get rid of the bogus extra supply cost . and nerf the stats a little .
OR
make the unit more like a non flying Viking ,who by i think is a tier3 DPS unit .
but between the 2 id chose macro basied DPS unit , like it was originally made for