This is something only a Terran would say only thing missing is i need to play 10x better with constant shift clicking medivac to suicide and spamming T while i a move my bio.
Not great as very responsive mm and with upgrades even more responsive
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I donât know what game have you been playing but SCVs, medievacs and queen can move. You should send the replay where a shield battery flew into a base with zealots. Or one where a shield battery helped build a phase cannon and repaired an immortal during a push or, one where a shield battery shot back at reapers and zerglings. Shields and how fast they regenerate is how you justify protoss having higher and cost supply per unit. Atleast, that is how the player base justified it.
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Warpgate and shield Regen (Especially for units that are on the opponentâs side of the map) are relevant to the strength of gateway units. Gateway units canât just be buffed without other changes (Other than pre-charge zealots and sentries, which are in a terrible state and could be buffed without issue).
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Sort of, but catching units out on the map as they reinforce is also part of it. âSetting Protoss a cycle behindâ when using warpgate would require some pretty complex changes. You can achieve similar results without actually setting protoss a cycle behind by simply increasing the warp in time significantly when warp ins arenât within a certain range of a Nexus.
You donât seem to get that Protoss has points of power in the game. If it didnât, it wouldnât win games at the highest level at all. There are points where Protoss has clear advantages over Terran.
(Less so over Zerg. PvZ is kind of a mess on the design side, which is why itâs all about when Protoss decides to attack and how Zerg reacts to that/if they scout it. If Zerg reacts correctly, they win. If they donât, they lose. Micro in the late game is also somewhat difficult for Zerg due to the reliance on multiple spellcasters, though thatâs not much of an issue now with interceptor priority fixed).
Yes, and Nydus also takes 14s (20s editor time) to pop up. Warp ins take ~3.5s(5s editor time). Nydus is stronger because it also works with existing army, Zerg production is stronger, and they can send anything through it, and gateway units have awful DP, but you have time to react to a Nydus, and the initial investment to make one is larger.
The point on nerfing something to buff gateway units is more about game dynamics. It could very easily help with making Protoss more stable through the mid game by making its army stronger defensively and need less investment to defend small attacks, without buffing it when Protoss is doing those timing attacks, since it wouldnât be able to leverage shield regen every time it disengages after dealing damage.
Those potential gateway unit buffs could let Protoss be out on the map more effectively vs Zerg in the early game and those units to not get absolutely rolled by stimmed bio in the mid game.
You fail to understand that the issue is more nuanced than just âbuff protossâ.
Protoss is the best performing/most represented race on the upper ladder and in minor tournaments. Buffing it to the point where itâs winning GSL as well, without nerfing anything else, would not be good. (I made a similar point many times regarding Zerg in the past when it was the race in the dominant position on ladder/in minor tournaments for almost the entirety of 2010-2019.).
Nobody is suggesting making Protoss weaker. Theyâre suggesting nerfing specific things (eg: warpgate and/or passive shield regen) to make room to buff other things (eg: gateway unit cost efficiency/scaling in straight fights). The goal is to buff Protoss at that top level without buffing it anywhere else, and without strengthening the things that are already regularly winning games if their opponent makes a small mistake (like blink timings vs Terran or glaive all ins vs Zerg).
Wow, itâs almost like nerfing that regen would give more room to buff unit costs/stats without causing obvious problems or something⌠/s
Even just making the regen only work at the current rate when within empowered/green power fields would be enough. Then Protoss would have the same regen as before on the defense, but less when attacking.
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No, You came here to advocate for your preferred protoss nerfs while you tell everybody that its just too complicated of an issue that nobody but you could possibly understand. We are done here homie. Good luck on your future endeavors.
Actually, I expect that anyone who takes a little bit of time to think about the matter could understand the thought process behind the suggested direction of nerfs and buffs (Iâve even put forward specific examples for both nerfs and buffs).
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I know, youve been very clear, warpgate/shield regen are unfair and thats why protoss arent viable at the highest level. And if we just let you nerf them a little bit then they would need a buff. For fairness.
Bout sum it up?
Terran is proven to be the hardest race (as measured by having by far the least average MMR per game). You crying and saying âstim a clickâ is cool, but it doesnât hold up to âreality.â
Apm is heavily influenced by mechanical repetition inherit in all three races and not indicitive of balance in any shape or form. Clicking a button 10 times is no harder than clicking a button one time.
Also this thread is about how to fix protoss, not to complain about your ladder woes as terran. Thank you.
I didnât say anything about APMâŚ
Dude, youâre the one who started us down this path whining about âT-A-Click Terran.â
I understand that you didnât read what I wrote, but did you also not read what you wrote? I know we donât expect a super high IQ from Protoss players, but this is getting out of hand.
You didnt. My apologies i misread it.
I didnt start anything i misread your post and i apologized.
Im not a protoss player, i am a spectator. Also i believe last time i laddered like 7 years ago i played zerg but you would have to check.
Terran is the default class that new people play. Thus deflating their mmr and making it a useless stat for balancing the game.
If you look at this balance report(the bottom one is adjusted for the mmr of your opponent) you will see that terrans and zergs are doing just fine predominately at the expense of protoss.
Also this still isnt a thread for promoting terran problems.
Edit: wont let me link aligulac just search aligulac + balance.
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If thatâs what youâve taken away from any of the responses above, then itâs pretty clear youâre seeing what you want to see, rather than what people are actually saying.
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Thank you for your opinion.
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Buddy if in this iteration of Terran you canât crush any opponent till GM i think itâs time to buy yourself console and play single player games and you can pretend as much as you like that you donât cry.
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Again, this is all a failure to read and comprehend on your part.
Asamuâs suggestion is basically to nerf shield regeneration in the early game, but buff Gateway unit stats and costs and return that regeneration through an upgrade later.
This all results in stronger mid-game/late-game Gateway units. For instance, he explicitly suggested reducing the Stalkerâs cost from 125/50 to 100/50, which would mean you can get more of them for both early defense, and throughout the course of the game. It is a net positive.
Thank you for your opinion. I wish you the best of luck in your crusade for terran supremacy.
This is a common misconception. Terran players have, on average, been playing longer than players of other races.
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