How important is the gas for Swann?

Temple of Past is a good map for Swann to put down statics. You could had put some down to cover for your units, so you don’t get gas starved pumping units non-stop.

You would had been fine with just 160-170 supply with support of some statics. 200 is only needed if you want to take out both of last two Thrashers and spawn camp both enemy points. This is what I do if I have a decent partner.

Again nothing wrong the way you played. This was a decent gameplay, gas starved but decent.

imo static d i just a cover up of starving gas. given the replay - where is static d helpul? im in position for every attack wave thanks of hercs. there would have been zero benefit of static d. in perspective of playing “as perfect as possible” your are right :slight_smile:

overall static d is a relict from the past. except some mutations. offense is the better defense hehe

Clearly you don’t see. Gas going to 0 is not reason to bank as much gas as you can.

By your logic, I guess I should bank 50k mineral cuz my mineral goes to 0 every 10sec or so. Ooop, better bank them minerals now lol.


Glen, I’d just give up discussing with him. He clearly has an ego never fulfilled. If he can’t see why he could have used some static D then he will never.

This is a guy who believes banking gas is an appropriate response to maxing out at 20min mark. That’s enough said really.

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You said you were starving gas. This is my suggestion so you don’t starved for gas.

Statics are there already, you don’t need to warp.

Rear of the bases and camp each spawn points with statics

No one expect perfect play. Decent play is good for most cases.

Swann have one of the best defensive and offensive statics. I use them to defend and attack bases.

i didnt want to sound rude :slight_smile: ToP already gives me plenty opportunity to netflix while coop. really no great effort to teleport to the wave spots… i dont enjoy to let my army wait behind static d, just to give them the unnecessary shots.

im not sure if i understand your suggestion. your idea is to build 2nd armory and 2nd factroy later, so im not in the need of gas?

i appreciate your replays btw. especially the offensive static d sounds interesting.

If you have time to do this then you have time to put down other things.

Do you realize you are talking to two different people … I didn’t suggest 2 armories or 2 Factories.

I didn’t show you any of my replays, but here.
Void Launch solo with P0 Swann, not exactly offensive statics and not perfect play either, mostly statics.

I think a lot of people can do this or have done it already.

i dont understand how static d solves my grief for gas. the only sense it makes to me is when i get 2nd armory/fac later so i dont have instant need for more gas.

ofc. my point is 2xfac are mandatory. 2nd armory is disputeable. i like to get it to get the attack upgrade asap (i mostly get range and heal first) and later on dont have an akward amount of gas floating. but like FearrWhalins said: shield is not important.

sure, thats a viable strat. since i only play random maps i dont choose other then p3. if i have a need for variety i go p1 mass wraith, which is actualy pretty legit. my void launch games as well pretty fast end up in hoovering my army above the shuttle spawn, w8n to come out finally. occasionally i spam turrets at 1 or 2 spawns, depending on my ally. just cause i can, not necessary at all

But the fact remains, on your 2nd replay. Your need of gas is only ~1500. Based on the timing of your geyser saturations, you get enough for all you’ve done up to that point.

The banked/additional gas from vespene drones was less than 200 gas. For someone to religiously believe this is needed to shine as Swann is just delusional.

Want more gas? Get earlier saturation on geysers, end of story. We can all debate about how much for whoever’s style, but that’s how most of the gas is received. Not from vespene drones. It’s just a fact.

It’s so sad to always see when facts from a porter’s own gameplay are presented, they simply ignore it and continue to believe whatever they want to believe. But hey, you do your thang lol, you’ll just continue to play at the level you do. Doesn’t affect others who might want to learn a thing or two.

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I’m saying it’s not mandatory. One Factory, about 120-140 supply mid game and 160-170 supply late game. End game with 200 supply if you want. If you do this you will not be gas starved.
One Herc holding 16 tanks, second Herc holding 4-6 Thors / some Goliaths (for air Hybrids) and 3-4 Science Vessels, would be enough for the comp you were handling.

And you can compensate with laying down some statics for support.

But this is your game and your build, which is why I said it is decent.

that works but will end up in massive overmins/gas.
again: static d can be a fun way to play but its less *effective. if it gives you joy to seem dem towers lighting up the enemy, go for it :slight_smile:

*effective in terms of getting sh1t done quickly. ofc fun is the main goal and is achived for any1 differently

Of course it works .

I’ve played both styles of all into gas drones and dropping them puppies immediately, and playing with Lazor Drill upgrades and focusing on saturating gas early and delaying drones.

The earlier drill provides earlier pushing power then the gas drones. I’ve tried it with all prestiges. I’ve even tried full gas drone mastery with P3 and rushing enemies with an early Herc/tank push. The drill is always better, and the gas drones can always take a back seat.

We’ve all got the maps memorized at this point, I’d recommend trying some games with full drill mastery and delayed drones, and see how that compares. You’ll find the extra gas is kind of nice, but doesn’t effect your timings in any way.

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Please elaborate. The laser drill (we are talking mainly about the auto attack?) is a backbone of your gameplay? I find it mostly gimmicky except at p1. There its awesome and i put 15 prestige into upgrage time\cost. Actualy i never tried the beam-size prestige because it appears pretty weak. The regular beam deals with almost any wave already.

You mention that the drill has good offensive potential compared to tank/herc. How do you mange to give constant Vision for the drill?

Replay appriciated :wink:

https://file.io/ZaM6AYKtDmN0

Here’s one I played just earlier today. Swordier is right, going drill is far superior in that it is far more flexible. And you get a faster push timing.

I hope that link works lol… ever since drop.sc stopped allowing coop games, I haven’t bothered looking for one that worked well.

You’ll note that 1 x saturated geyser was all it was needed until 4min+ (if I recall correctly). And 4x Vespene Drone (400min for me) at 5min only for the sake of pleasing the off-chance-whiny-ally. Basically the need for gas is far less than people think it ‘has to be’. And you can still make it work perfectly fine.

Not my best game, but it’s a pretty average performance. Take it for what you will.

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I just did a quick one on ToP after I put my kids to sleep to show you where I would put my statics. I put them at enemy spawns inside and outside the base. I didn’t have problem with gas at all. Spam statics almost everywhere kept minerals below 1k. I was going to put some statics on top of where my ally was (near the end), but that would be rude. This is what I meant by offensive statics. Swann’s statics are soooo cheapp and soo strong (500 ish HP).

Notice I didn’t even look back at the base when enemies spawned at my base, because I had my laser drill and static took care of it (ally too).

I was lucky to have Guardian Shield, was relaxed with my micro-ing, not great. This is with P1 Swann, I am starting to love this Prestige. I didn’t know it would be so good. It’s good for enemies that are cluttered together, notice the Templests, Voidrays and Phoenixs, worked great.

Now I know why Monk used Swann as his main.

FearrWhalins You seem to be saying everything right, but I will correct about one point from Swann: he no need Vespene gas on the build Factories and Armories.

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For beam width mastery, the standard is 19 points into beam width and damage. This will allow you to 1 shot BC’s in enemy attack waves, removing all of those nasty yamatos.

As for drill upgrade and using it to push, I use it in combo with Herc/tank on all prestiges. You can have the drill up and running and start pushing enemy bases with only 1 Herc and 2 tanks. The earlier Lazor can be used to take out the early pesky flyers and deal with other pesky enemies in the early game (siege tanks, immortals, etc). The earlier use of concentrated beam and pulse cannon are also useful to either clear waves with no losses, or to wipe out an enemy encampment. Even on P3, I still prefer Lazor mastery for those powerful early game calldowns.

As for replay, I can try to put one up when I get home. Although I do have a few still hanging around on the forums if I could find them.

Yeah, definitely my bad on that. Brain just farted and thinking about everyone else except Swann’s perk on that lol.

I’ll add that despite my oversight, the lack of gas cost on factory and Armory only reduces the total need for gas by -200 from my previous posts. And that further adds to my point on “no need for vespene drones”.

Thanks for catching that :+1:

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thx for the replay.

  • from the 12min mark you had the gas and the minerals to fully utilize a second factory. then you would have had exactly what i recommend (2armory, 2fac, 1 starport)
  • altough u went for the maybe gas-heaviest build
  • i can agree to you BO, in case u got the early drill to support your ally getting his brutalisk asap (did you?) otherwise i would have been more effective to get the expo asap to get your macro rollin. the first ships can be taken down by brutas or your calldown

otherwise well played, niche buildings placements and unit choice :wink:

my mass wraith build for this and many other maps
h.ttps://www.file-upload.net/download-14607666/masswraith.SC2Replay.html

What are you talking about? Did you really pay attention to it? I have less than 300 gas banked. How is that suppose to support 2x Factory + Starport? And my Starport was producing like 1 SV once in awhile just so I can continuously do 2xCyclone.

The initial gas is only to satisfy drill upgrades (that is the standard drill opener). And I never made a 2nd factory the entire game.

I made a 2nd Armory to show getting the Armor upgrade is pretty pointless (seen by loss of units through, which is steady regardless of armor).

My Starport was not producing more than 50% of the time because you don’t need more than 5-8 SV.

All of that is meant to showcase:

  1. Going cyclone over herc/tank is perfectly fine.
  2. Going drill opener over non-drill opener is perfectly fine.
  3. Not banking gas is perfectly fine. Thus vespene drones are a waste of time (hence why I highlighted I wasted 400min at 5min).
  4. My ally functioned perfectly fine without vespene drones (take a look at his units). He benefited far more from me killing enemies for biomass.

I expected as much from you. However, I thought I’d show you anyway.

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