How do you handle mutas?

Protoss Discussion
1

Hi there!

Long story short, I’ve played since SC2 beta and was at the top of the ladder back then as Z but also was playing P. I took many long breaks (sometimes years) and didn’t get that much into the 2 following expansions. I got back into SC2 casual maybe about 3 months ago, played all 3 races. Z is my strongest but P is my favorite one to play.

For the last 3 months or so, I developed a build that had me win almost 100% of my PvZ (I was matched against diamond players in general) but for some reason, it seems like the meta just shifted this week into something that hard counters my build.

I used to open forge/expand to pressure the Z fast expansion with canon (either forcing a cancel, killing it or at least buying time). I then would quickly get 4 VRs out making me safe vs roach pushes or nydus and I would normally go snipe the 3rd with the VRs if possible. I then would quickly tech to templar archives for storm as I’m getting my 3rd and be safe with canons and 4 HTs to hold off a hydra push. After that, I would get into skytoss (mass carriers+mothership mostly and a few archons that hard counter the corruptors and HTs to storm hydras). Only one single player managed to beat it into the late game out of probably over 50 PvZ and he did it with mass hydras+vipers (the storms didn’t cut it, I might have needed disruptors).

Since this week, I faced a lot of Zerg that went heavy economy with fast lair into mass mutas. I tried to adapt with that previous build but nothing works. I tried mass phoenixes with range upgrades, it eventually takes over the mutas but by that time, the Zerg will normally add a bunch of hydras and gets an easy win because of how expensive the phoenixes are. Archons are too slow and get stuck with my normal wall (they can’t even get through without a warp prism). 2-3 canons + battery doesn’t work if there’s a lot of mutas. Stalkers don’t really work.

So I’m forced to transition into a new build that might be more offensive because the only solution I can think of (I go mutas all the time as Z vs P) is to make a strong early/mid game push before the muta harass starts or else I start taking damage from it, can’t shut it down and eventually lose. I tried a ground based army (archons, stalkers, disruptors, collosus + tempests and mothership) but it failed in the late game vs many corruptors + lurkers/broods/vipers.

Any link to some videos for PvZ that aren’t outdated with the current meta? How do you handle muta builds? Do I need warp prism + archons and warp prism speed? The only unit Protoss has that can truly chase them away are phoenixes but you can’t produce them fast enough unless you get 2+ stargates and get the range upgrade but if you do that and Zerg tech switches into hydras, you’re basically dead.

2

Honestly, you just have to play it by ear and scout to the best of your abilities. All you see vs a zerg is a tech structure and maybe some units from a particular structure. They can decide whatever they want to do with their bank whether it’s make 5 or 20 mutas. It’s a tough decision, but know that as soon as you counter their mutas with phoenixes (i.e. you won the first fight), it’s very likely they will switch to some ground composition, so you either need to swap to skytoss or get a late game ground army, and storm is important in every case. If you decide to stay full ground, you likely need a warp prism & archons or blink stalkers to fight the mobility of mutas, or force a base trade.

3

phoenix with the range upgrade is going to be your best bet since phoenixes can move and shoot properly microed phoenixes will out preform mutas

4

Attack earlier (i.e. chargelots while you transition to air). Zerg can only play mass mutas if you don’t push or don’t force heavy multi-tasking.
Also think about a few archons in the mix here and there to damage the mutas.
(harrass = bait to trap the mutas between stalkers and archons and phoenixes)

I think storm and shield batteries + stalkers is better than phoenixes.
Rather build carriers, archons and storm vs. mutas than phoenixes.

5

As a Zerg player, I can say a heavy eco into quick lair is very susceptible to an early-ish timing attack. A charge and archon push would be nice, especially with immortals and a prism, but I feel if they get too heavy on eco they won’t have the fighters to hold the push. Even if the mutas have just popped, they will be forced to engage the archons defensively while charges work the Queen’s and drones.

Maybe try looking back at your replays and find the timing those mutas come out and see if you can add the archon chargelot units to the 4 voids (since they will be very useful in fighting roaches, knocking down buildings and high ground vision) with 2-4 archons and mass zealot. If you can hit the timing right before or when the mutas come out after that type of early game, sounds like a win. I’m not sure what the details would look like tho.

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