A while ago the Nydus worm got some serious nerfs that included a cooldown on nydus worm creation and being able to attack nydus worms while burrowing in. And while I mostly agree that these nerfs were a good idea. I sometimes wonder. What if they simply made some of these upgrades? Similar to my thread about medivac upgrades I have some ideas for Nydus worm upgrades that each come with downsides and are branching upgrades. Basically you pick one and the other two are unavailable.
Quick disclaimer: Obviously none of these are actually gonna happen, but theoretical discussion of ideas that could be in multiplayer is fun!
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Molten Jaws
Nydus worms take 50% less time to emerge when placed. However all units that exit the nydus worm from either exit point loose half their health and get a permanent debuff that reduces maximum, health and damage by 50%.
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Creep Fiend
Nydus worms now spread creep within a range of 25 from the vicinity of the created nydus worm, but Nydus worms become a one way affair. Any unit passing through a nydus worm cannot exit back out the same way. Only the original network.
- Gigantism
Nydus worms are now twice the size of normal Nydus worms, have 50% more health and unleash a shockwave that damages nearby structures for 50% their maximum and knocks nearby units back. However Nydus worms now take 50% longer to finish burrowing in, cost 250/250 to place and non massive units exiting the nydus worm take 50% longer to exit in que.
Like last time, upgrades can be changed but it each time someone changes upgrades it costs at an extra 50% more then starting, And the starting price for these upgrades is 145/145. Only one can be active at a time,
Do you think upgrades like this would be a good idea? Would any of them have a good place in SC2 multiplayer or would some of gthem be too OP or not worth getting?
No. They received some very heavy buffs (Like nydus being invincible during Set Up) that Made nydus in General but especially nydus swarmhost completly overpowered but Blizzard didnt really Care and wanted nydus to be used more Often. It was the worst chapter of Balance ever. After some time they acknowledged it was a very dumb Idea and nydus buffs got heavily reverted.
Meaning they got nerfed after being seriously Buffed.
The First Upgrade that you propose could make the nydus swarmhost completly OP again. Its still a very very Strong build and because swarmhosts arent affected by the debuff that much it could mean that its Worth to do it. Other than that i dont See that any Other Upgrade would have a significant Impact. I would say they arent even really Worth and would only be used in an already Won Game/favorable basetrade scenario. If you give nydus worm Double the time to Set Up it will Most likely be killed everytime. At least in progame.
And this is why i wouldnt suggest nydus buffs because they often time wouldnt affect pro that much but they are a serious threat to Low Level Players.
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The problem with nydus from what i understand is accounting for the queens ability to transfuse, not so much the nydus itself. If you’re paying attention it’s not that hard to stop. IMO they could just make it so it doesn’t spawn creep for the first 10 seconds so they can’t cheese heal the nydus in your base with queens. Then you could bring back invincible nydus worms before they spawn :^)
People love complaining about nydus worms but zergs options for harass in the late-game is VERY limited compared to the other races because of how much a sim-city and static D can negate it. Compare 1 or 2 medivacs of MM to a 2 ovie drop with roach hydra and MM wipes the floor with how quickly it can tear a base apart in just 10-20 seconds. Hell if you’re SO concerned about nydus all-ins just make them require hive tech again and bam, we can enjoy our good nydus worms in the late game in peace.
No. They received some very heavy buffs (Like nydus being invincible during Set Up) that Made nydus in General but especially nydus swarmhost completly overpowered but Blizzard didnt really Care and wanted nydus to be used more Often. It was the worst chapter of Balance ever. After some time they acknowledged it was a very dumb Idea and nydus buffs got heavily reverted.
Weren’t nydus worms previously unattackable while burrowing in and your could place multiple at once? I was talking about when Blizzard made nydus worms attackable during burrowing again.
The First Upgrade that you propose could make the nydus swarmhost completly OP again. Its still a very very Strong build and because swarmhosts arent affected by the debuff that much it could mean that its Worth to do it. Other than that i dont See that any Other Upgrade would have a significant Impact. I would say they arent even really Worth and would only be used in an already Won Game/favorable basetrade scenario. If you give nydus worm Double the time to Set Up it will Most likely be killed everytime. At least in progame.
Especially when considering transfuse. I am no balance expert so these ideas can easily have flaws when looking closely at them. Ill try think of some tweaks that could potentially make these more theoretically workable.
Zerg doesn’t need any buffs whatsoever.
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weird. could have sworn that i actually checked it this morning and they were made invincible somewhere in lotv. But yeah now i see in the check notes that they arent invincible anymore in late 2018. But the op part was about them costing next to nothing anymore (150/150 and any new network 50/50 from 150/200 nydus cost and 100/100 any new nydus, note that the important part is about gas, because especially zerg doesnt want to mine gas ).
which was followed up by a huge buff in january 2019 (shortly after first buff):
Nydus Network and Nydus Worm initial unload delay decreased from 0.36 to 0.18.
Nydus Network and Nydus Worm unload period changed from 0.36 to 0.18.
Nydus Network and Nydus Worm load period changed from 0.18 to 0.09.
And there was still no cd on nydus. also the cd on nydus is only to prevent from nydus being able to be shift + build. the cd takes as much time as the whole set up would take. meaning cd is 14 seconds and the whole nydus setup takes also 14 seconds. so you can build another nydus when the first one is finished.
only end of the year they finally acknowledged that they have messed up big time and followed it up with:
Nydus Worm cost increased from 50/50 to 75/75.
Summon Nydus Worm ability cooldown increased from 0 to 14.
Nydus Network and Nydus Worm initial unload delay increased from 0.18 to 0.36.
Nydus Network and Nydus Worm load period increased from 0.09 to 0.18.
Nydus Network and Nydus Worm unload period increased from 0.18 to 0.36.
pretty much reverted the heavy buffs they received, but the nydus remains still buffed after all. its now much cheaper and despite not being invincible, its pretty much next to no difference because the 6 armor prevents workers from shutting it down and if you can shut down the nydus with the army attacking the nydus then you could shut down the nydus when it pops out(also with swarmhost nydus the nydus is not even placed inside the base of the opponent). And i cant stress this enough that the reduced gas cost is so important for the timing of the nydus and also for the swarm hosts you potentionally build (because swarm hosts were the actually broken part about nydus).
so the problem is if you slightly buff the nydus in the early game, it will turn out to be completly broken.
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