Does anyone have any ideas to why H&H is the least picked cmd ?
Is it because of their kit (unit, upgrade) or their playstyle ?
Feel kinda strange that even Alarak (eventhough ppl call him weak, hard to play, etc) have a higher pick rate than H&H.
I like H&H and Alarak, so I’m not sure.
H&H has decent build variety with Reaper spam, investing in support from other mercs, Upgraded Galleons to tank, Strike Fighters, and the whole elite airforce thing.
Maybe people get turned off from not being able to spam some super-strong unit to win on top of not having a flashy hero unit?
Reapers are powerful yet frail, and while I prefer to rush a Sovereign Battlecruiser, H&H can’t spam them like typical big units.
I have little experience with mutations to comment on balance there, but H&H has an at least average level of nuance in Brutal to keep me interested.
Alarak feels incredibly strong to me, but he can actually get set back by making mistakes.
In the current power context, I guess that makes him weak.
Probably just that you are forced to go mass reaper ever single game. Yeah by the end you can transition to Horner’s elite airforce, but you still have to start with reapers. I wish Hans forces had been expanded a bit more. I have fun playing H&H but I don’t play them very often, because other commanders are usually more appealing. Would have liked to see like 2 more ground units for Han.
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Eh, at least outside of mutations you can rush to your first Battlecruiser pretty soon after it comes off cool-down once you get the timing down while the mines hold early waves at bay.
In all my games as H&H, I’ve tried to use Reapers about three times. Mostly because I get lazy.
If using a one-unit army regenerating Battlecruiser for a time feels dull to you, I can understand that, but there’s a charm to it for me.
I’ll be honest I never tried not building reapers. It just never occurred to me that it was even an option. I just assumed that people rushed the BCs while suplimenting reapers in the same way people rush BCs for Mengsk while suplimenting troopers.
It’s cause they’re weird. You have these mobile unit producers that fly and attack but are really slow and awkward and they make units that are supposed to suicide and then you’re also supposed to call down elite air units that have a really long cooldown, and you have to try and keep a mix of them because they buff each other, but then you can also make these airstrike platforms, and your major form of static defense are these mines that home in on targets but not really, and…yeah. Much like the pairing of the characters, H&H has this really wonky playstyle that has lots of unique perks but pulls itself in a lot of directions without really excelling at anything. Their biggest claim to fame is that they pair so well with other commanders that can go the swarming/suicidal army comp like Zagara, Stukov and Stetmann since they get a big benefit from the scrap refunds.
Alarak is in a similar position, but he at least has the benefit of the hero unit and the more straight-forward mech comp to fall back on (plus, Sith Lord Q is a big fan-favorite). They’re not weak, per se, they just have a very niche playstyle that has a hard time hooking people.
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It’s worth giving a spin: just get Gas up quick.
You’ll need a lot of minerals too, though.
Funny how you mention both HH and Alarak by name. In more cases than not, I’d much prefer to play as Alarak.
–They have no AG-tower.
–Mag Mines are great, but aren’t “set and forget”
you need to position them correctly relative to the terrain, your other supporting buildings (e.g. Depots and Turrets), or have your units dance around them to get better effect
–You can only build 5 of their production buildings/attack buildings
It feels limiting to me
–their recovery can be messy if things “go south”
–elite air units are on cd
–The only Terran where you need to really “look ahead” with allocating supply
Raynor can insta-build Depots
Swann can pile on SCVs to quick build
Mengsk can do that as well (along with option to “force conscription” for instant supply)
Tychus and Nova don’t do supply
–Reapers do seem to be the “go to” build
Hoping Widow Mines get their gas cost severely reduced, or done away with
–IIRC, I still don’t get 2 of their Masteries
.
With Alarak, you can still go with the “tried and true” mass Slayer/Stalker option.
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I think H&H has a weird kit and a lot of people don’t like it. I am not a huge fan of at least one of the mechanics they have, but I play quite a lot of H&H because I love Reapers.
My favourite commander, also lore wise. The call downs are so much fun. And I love the suicide game play. Before Zagarla was my 1
Widow Mines costing gas always felt weird.
There’s not much call for a mostly defense-only unit in co-op anyway, and it’d open up a solid defensive option that wouldn’t drain their precious gas from Han’s stuff.
Gas is so limited on them that it’s hard to justify it for them, especially if you plan on using Han’s units.
It’d be nice if Hellions outshined Reapers enough against armored ground forces to shove them out vs some comps, though the death buff / fear alone makes them usable.
Swann has immensely more supply issues than H&H though: he almost constantly has to build them with no bonus supply while cranking out a ton of supply heavy units quickly.
No AG tower isn’t an issue most of the time, gets minorly annoying on infected maps, and is sorely missed when you need a Ghost trap to stop nukes.
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Can someone give me a DEFINITIVE answer please: without mastery points, stronger death chance stands at 0%? Meaning, one will NEVER get it unless some amount of mastery points have been allocated to stronger death chance? Is this how it works? Thanks to anyone who can answer that.
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You’ll get unit specific death effects once you research the applicable upgrades from the Engineering Bay. The Stronger Death Chance Mastery gives you a chance for a more powerful death effect.
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My personal view, i think the low rate of HnH pick is due to HnH “forced mechanics” to pair han’s army with horner’s army.
While players can get pretty effective with mainly hans units then get horners units for support or get them balanced, it’s not the other way around.
If the devs could relax the cooldowns to train horner’s units, i’m sure some more creative comps would pop up to make HnH more exciting.
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Ok so NO stronger death without at least some mastery points… thats’ what I needed to know. Thanks
You mean Matt Horner. His units are the strike jets and the elite ships. Mira Hans units are the gallons and the units they produce and the magmines.
And after playing her for longer it could be that I just bad but I feel like you either have to decide, if in early game you focus on making only gallons and rush out drone upgrade because you can start earlier making ships or you delay your ships and focus on massing reapers early. The other proplem with her Gallons are that they have iirc no more self heal and because of their slowliness the tend to lag behind and if they are getting hit it is very likely they will be destroyed. The lose of one really because then you have not lost just 200 gas but also takes it time until they are back and until then you are handicapped in making troops. If all of them destroyed you are effectivly useless for now because reapers tend to die so fast, that they need constantly reproduced and you often lack more of how much you can produce then how many minerals you have beside early game. The gascost of the whole fleets let you must decide between having strike fighters and/or two kind of ships. Theoretically you could go for an early massreaper build with strike fighters and mass ravens so they get you supply for having reapers shoot more but most of them rather use real air support like wraiths or cruisers.
From my opinion it could help making them more interessting would be reduce the gas costs of all ships and strike jets with 25% and making mines cost no gas because that would give much needed mineral dump for defensive untis.
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The real beauty of the widow mine is not for its defense, it is its deathrattle effect.
Built a few and send them right in the fight like banelings, they make very nice work on the enemy wave.
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The flying ping pong tables are fragile, limits units production and they lack regen.
Going mass reaper every single game, gets old pretty damn fast. His other units simple aren’t viable, why would anyone ever go hellion or hellbats?.
Air units cost way to much gas and has way to long cooldowns. Goodluck getting enough AA if you are facing mass air like zerg with scourge.
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Thematics.
Zeratul nerf caused a lot of backlash not necessarily because of the cannons, but because he’s friggin’ Zeratul. He’s the silent brooding ninja alien badass. Who doesn’t want to play that? Though seriously, who associates Zeratul with static defense?
Nobody gives a crap about Alarak, he’s literally Highlord of LOLUSUK BOW2ME.
Han and Horner were cool in WoL… and then got shunted off to the side after that.
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Yes, I meant Matt. Derp.
When I BC rush, I stay on one Galleon and maybe get a Hellion or two for rocks, though expanding before the BC delays it a bit.
The Galleons require a bit of forethought, but they have the range to stay safe when you use them to support something: and their upgraded drones are excellent tanks. It’s a little annoying to spend precious gas to repair them, so I only bother if I upgraded them.
I typically rush out a first BC, eventually throw in Wraiths due to the BC cool down, and choose between Strike Fighters and upgraded Galleons depending on the map and my mood.
No Reapers required for that Horner centric army.
Cutting the Widow Mine gas cost would be a huge help, though.