with this relatively massive patch one would think blizzard would buff the worst terran unit instead of buffing cyclone which was actually pretty usable before.
Cyclone was nerfed, not buffed.
For reasons unknown.
Hellbat does okay-ish in hellbat pushes and in mech armies as damage sponge…
Honestly I would be far more happy if they made Hellbat use bio upgrades not mech one: maybe it would see some use outside of hellbat pushes and Mech style is not fun to play anyway, nor to play against it.
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That would be a fairly significant nerf to Terran for no real benefit. Bio can barely make use of Hellbats, with or without upgrades.
In most cases Bio simply doesn’t have the range to use Hellbats as an effective a buffer. The speed difference is also a problem for Bio, the harassment role is redundant with Bio-Medivac drops, and the Hellbat shares almost all of the same counters as Marines, meaning the opponent often doesn’t need to change their composition much to deal with Hellbats.
On the other hand, Hellbats & Hellions are fairly important in mech for harassment, for killing off light units that Tanks/Cyclones/Thors are less efficient against (Zealots, Zerglings, etc), and for buffering Tanks/Thors/Cyclones from various threats (from melee units up to 6-range units like Immortals) so that those gas-heavy units don’t get focused down and killed.
“Firebats” may have been a bio unit with Infantry upgrades, but they were rarely used and fairly worthless to the composition. They are not a good example to emulate.
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Maru uses Hellbats in ultra late game - after he gets +3 vehicles weapons (at this point hellbats begin to one shot lings; also if I am not mistaken it takes +2 weapons to one-shot broodlings with +3 armor) and that makes me wonder if there is some use for Hellbats in bio army after all.
Lack of upgrades is one of the major reasons why nobody sane would try to use Hellbats. Heck, vehicles armor upgrade is important enough for Widow Mines that people make it (so it would survive couple more of ling bites).
Lack of speed is second major reason. I wonder what can be done about that… Make transformation nearly instnat - like for Lurkers? Give them charge like in Nova’s campaign? Give them some gimped Stim that increase only movement speed?
I don’t think mech should be considered much: its more of a “fun” composition for the ladder rather than real strategy (feels more like “anti-fun” to me).
Helbats are strong I would say need nerf in damage.
Bonus light regular attack is very small margin compared to most units that has bonuses.
I think problem you guys looking at stacking rolls.
What really want is stim so they increase there speed with bio
If I recall correctly, Maru switches to mech in the very late-game. The Hellbats are rarely actually used alongside Bio forces apart from the surviving Hellions from earlier harassment phase before they die off. That is not a function of upgrades, the Hellbats just aren’t considered useful enough for Bio to keep producing them.
The last few pro-games I’ve seen the Terran player didn’t even research Blue Flame, so upgrades (particularly weapon upgrades, which are not particularly important for Hellbats) cannot be a part of the problem. It should also be noted that Bio players often use Tanks or Thors (which are both about as upgrade-dependent as Hellbats) despite the different types of upgrades.
You cannot increase the speed of Hellbats without significantly nerfing their damage or their health; either of those changes would actually defeat the point of using them.
Combat units basically have a mix of 4 stats (speed, durability, range, and damage), and a unit cannot be good at all of them. A unit must usually pick 2 stats to be good at, or be good at one stat and mediocre at the others.
- Hellions are specialized for speed with only moderate range & damage. The low durability and low single-target DPS help balance that out.
- Hellbats are specialized for both durability and damage, sacrificing speed and range for those stats. The difference is severe enough that Hellbats have 50% more health and between 1.5x to 3x as much DPS depending on the target and upgrades.
Hellions/Hellbats can only be balanced for both of those states because the transformation takes a significant enough amount of time for the opponent to react. Despite that, the Hellbat mode also needed increased cargo space to limit the players’ ability to use Medivacs to get around that low mobility.
In short, changing Hellbats for Bio, a composition that doesn’t even really have a purpose for them, is a terrible idea. You may not personally like mech, but it is good for Terran players to have multiple ways to play; and Hellions/Hellbats currently perform very well at their respective roles with no need for any changes.
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