Having trouble ZvP - Any tips?

Zerg Discussion
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I have been struggling against Protoss this season. I hover around 4200 MMR, but I end up losing to Protoss players down to 3700-3800 MMR. I find it difficult to scout what a Protoss is doing in time to counter it. It’s also difficult for me to determine if the Protoss is going for an all-in or not. I’ll scout a sentry, stalker, and robo bay, and assume it’s an immortal sentry all-in. I stop my droning at around 45 workers, and make units until I see a third base go down. By then, my macro has gotten very far behind. If there are any players who have figured out how to determine what a Protoss is doing in time to react, could you give me any tips? Thanks.

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I don’t waste time (it’s a loss anyway) and quit immediately when it is ZvP. Waiting for the balance patch, really WAITING.

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Upload some replays, please.
Without context I can’t help you.
One BO that works like a charm versus Terran and Toss; giving free MMR.
17 Hatch
17 Gas
18 Pool
Drone till 20
20 Roach Warren
19 Metabolic Boost
19 Queen at natural
21 6 lings
24 Overlord x2
Then Add 8 roaches, pull out gas
Add speedlings, non stop.
Add a Queen to the main and one overlord more.
Terran usually opens reaper into hellions or 2-1-1 also known as 16StimMarine drop. Toss opens usually gate-nexus-core, and even when they open gate core nexus or gate gate core you have more power.
The weakness here is the same as other cheeses; you must not be discovered. The reaper arrives when the lings are borning, dont waste them, just push him out, also at 2:50 you must preted to be placing third and not let the reaper see the Roach Warren at the same time.
Versus toss you must have your overlord watching the natural wall, so you know when the adept leaves, you must catch her mid map; the idea is that you dont let her see that you have no third, and the natural is not droned up.

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You have read that the question is about ZvP, not ZvT. yeah?

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Wow, leaving all Games because you cannot handle the Game, THATS a mature Solution … for a player in Diamond / Master League…

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There is a difference between “handling the game” and “handling the broken balance”. And it is just a matter of time-efficiency: having a 20% winrate against constant P. all-ins makes it not worth time playing the matchup. I rather train other matchups in waiting for fixing this sh…

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Maybe you miss only to learn how to counter Zerg? I mean, even in the Grandmaster League are a lot of Toss who win against Zerg…

I think it’s just an excuse … and if you exit every ~third game, you manipulate your MMR down and play every game against “noobs” … no wonder that you win against Terran an Protoss much more games now… :wink:

I have an suggestion: Leave every game against Terren & Protoss, and you will win soon every game against Zerg: guaranteed! :smiley:

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Personally think the 2 base all in by protoss 32-38 probes is just broken. You can scout but its hard to tell if the protoss gonna push or another base. I watched lowko stream for few days and he lost a lot to the all in by 2 base toss army chargelots/immo/stalker thing. The counter should be roach/rev/hydra but its very difficult to pull off. Others suggested banes but it didnt work for me , protoss needs to make a mistake or the chance of winning is very low. Would love to see some suggestions because i see many zerg struggle against that.

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I do love people who can’t even read the topic, but still have an opinion.

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Though I’m at a much lower MMR P is also the problematic matchup for me. I feel like even when I successfuly harass them and even destroy some expansions they still end up A-moving through me with a massive army I can’t stop.

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I’ve seen in Serral’s profil he is using his first 100/100 for overlord speed (he delays ling speed). I don’t know if he is doing it every game or not, but i’ve tried this in a few game and it works quite well and i haven’t died despite being on slow ling longer.

So you can scout the build order, and later you can drop banelings (in a roach/ravager/bane composition) on top of sentries.
Drop banelings on sentries if the best way to counter sentry/immortal, as after your roach/ravager/ling will destroy the push. You should aslo shut down WP when it’s in warp mode, you bile it.

Else, it’s all about your mecanisms : break FF with bile as soon as they pop, keep injecting, no supply block, constant production.

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I use OV speed scout in both ZvP/T.
it is good against:

  • early BCs - gives you enough warning
  • Zealot/Adept all-ins
  • DTs (if not proxied)

It is still bad against Immortal-Sentries all-ins and the like:

  • knowing its coming does not necessarily save you from it
  • often P. will use your commitment to army against you by going 3rd base and later game (your eco is bad)
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You also might want to check out this thread:

I would advise to play a ton of custom games vs. M3 protoss players to solidify your macro. Get control groups to check your tech (lurker timing, allin defense, lategame bl / infestor, gas timings and general macro like injects & macro hatches in case of ling opener or roach /hydra and creep spread / extra queens.

Just think that your macro is trash and you can do 2-3 times better after like 10-20 games (mainly drone-timing and upgrades / tech timings).

As someone already wrote: I’d also advise to go for an early overlord speed (before or after ling speed) and if you’re good enough to scout without it, you can cut corners but that will probably be rather in m2 and not in d1 or m3, I’d say.

Feel free to provide some replays - I’m sure this will not only help you (feedback) but also other players (learn something).

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I had a lot of trouble dealing with toss mid to late game especially and deathballs.
I would suggest to send an ovie and a drone to scout.
1)Ovie takes forever, if you see 1 gate , nexus and forge with cannon more often than not, he is going air to harass into carriers or mass air combo with mothership.

  1. If you see 2 gate nexus, early pressure is guaranteed almost, and he is throwing down a robo in his main probably for immortals or later colossi.Dont take a third too soon, as you will die to a timing probably .
  2. if no nexus, it is one base all in which can be very hard to fight off if unscouted by a drone. Ovie doesnt really gate there i time and by the time you see 4 gates warping in units you are dead with 2 queens and 4 roaches.
  3. If he walls off with gates and you scout more gates and robo in main but he isnt agressive. He is making a ground death ball with archons, templar, chargelots and stalkers which will rape 400 of your hydra roach supply in no time especially in tight maps.

The key to beating ground is knowing it is that and making just enough to hold the first push while you save up and speed tech to 12 to 16 broodlords in the back of your main. I have used this method 5 times or more, I let him kill my third and fourth, draw him into my natural and only then do I reveal the broodlords and attack with ground army as well. I snipe templar and archons first , kiting the ball if needed. Usually that traps and kills all his army or some escape but I counterattack immediately with non stop hydra support amd some roaches, sometimes I.throw in a few corruptors if he manages to squeeze ou 3 or 4 voidrays.By the time you reach his natural they gg out most times. I have been seemingly on the verge of defeat with this and still came out winning. The trick is, he cant see your broods morphing and you should have enough that sniping them with blink stalkers is very cost ineffective.

  1. Dont let them get there :joy::joy::joy: to toss death ball.

My favorite way is to 2 base all in them with hidden 8 to 10 roaches morphed into ravagers. This does not work if he goes mass stalkers and has over 12, but immortals get crushed pretty easily because of their own choke. I spam corrosive bile one by one so they cant really just.move back and come again to shoot. Taje out heir gateway pylons asap amd robos if in natural. Ravagers are surprisingly good against toss turtle in early game.

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You can tell a toss is doing a 2 base all-in because they have more than 3 gateways. It’s not hard to scout if they are going robo because they won’t have AA.

In my opinion, overlord speed is necessary in ZvP if they make a stalker. If they don’t make a stalker, you don’t need overlord speed.

If they expand anyways after building lots of gates, they will be behind in army and the army you built to handle their all-in build will easily cause them to have to cancel their third. Drone up while containing them, eventually they’ll push out, then you simply tech up a bit and mass an army to roll them.

Also, if toss opens robo, just make enough ling/roach/ravager as necessary to hold any sort of aggression, and then immediately go mutas. You should steamroll them pretty easily if you play it out right. If they make a stargate reactively, you just add hydras and hydra/bane roll them since they won’t have storm.

toss all-ins should be pretty easily held now with ravagers existing. You can hold, and now punish them back when you defend.

Personally I don’t like going overlord speed before ling speed because I want to make 2 queens right away to get the creep going. You aren’t going to hold any all-in by toss without creep spread.

I agree toss can be frustrating but you shouldn’t have trouble with proper macro and scouting. If Toss is going for a third it’s imperative that you take a 4th and you have 80+ drones.

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Thanks for this, tried it a few times and it’s been working well.

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Also get a few vipers + mass spores asap vs. a mothership and abduct it at first chance.
No detection vs. mothership is kinda an auto-loss.
Not just 5 lurkers but 10-15 or more if you get them.
–> lurker/spine is really nice vs. zealot/DT harrass if you go corruptor/broodlord/infestor + few vipers

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Im not a ranked player, but i would suggest pimping out roach/hydra until you can get roach/host in the mix.

With swarm host to can fly its units over terrain as it can do dmg and scout. If thats too risky possibly have a Nydus near by to prevent their demise?
It can be fun using the host to attack then retreat safely home to be able to defend both places.

(Also not sure if you tried changelings to scout their base)
(Assuming you could…)

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I am a complete pleb. What do those numbers on the left mean?

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supply
–> upper right corner while you play

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