Hello, i am a platinum 1 player, mostly play occasionally with very long pauses but i have been playing for almost 7 years.
I have played all races, mostly terran then switched to zerg.
I have the feeling zerg have really been over nerfed, but better players than me will maybe know better than me.
First, we have a totally useless unit : swarm host, which was a very good idea at the start, but it has really been nerfed to death. You just can’t play it, and it was very good against annoying players who just tank to death while building a powerful army.
Also, there is the protoss air problem. Actually, the only way for a zerg to beat a toss going air (void + carriers) is to prevent the army for being created by being offensive. If you don’t, well i have the ugly feeling that no army composition of any kind can beat a full air toss army.
Also, zergs are behind in basically everything in unit power. Thors will ruin everything in the air, toss air will ruin everything (period), the only thing we have that is actually preventing zerg from being absolutely destroyed is lurkers and their distance upgrade.
I am not one to complain easily, have made more than 4000 games without complaining, but it is my feeling that zerg have been over nerfed. At the very least we need to improve swarm hosts one way or another.
Cheers
3 Likes
I really feel we should at least watch how things play out a bit after a big balance patch before jumping to conclusions.
We’ve seen HSC, basically. Which was way too soon after the patch to say much.
The only issue I feel confident to say anything on is that the charge and observer nerfs were BS, because protoss wasn’t doing well before the patch, and certainly didn’t need nerfing.
7 Likes
Yep, i am not one to favor over complaining about balance, but right now i feel zerg only viable option is to go for lurkers. I just read through the forum and apparently i am not the only one to feel this way.
About protoss ground i dont have much issues playing ground toss, but air toss is either total win if it is scouted in time or total loss if the protoss is able to reach a certain unit volume. I wasn’t aware of the toss nerfs.
As a zerg player, i only witnessed a serie of nerfs on zergs over the years. I feel like going back to terran at the moment.
Anyway, i understand that perfect balance is not realistic but maybe is it because a lot of very good pros were playing zerg that zerg has been nerfed? Some people are always going to complain. Right now i really don’t feel that zergs are overpowered, far from it, yet when i get a win i sometime face rage from players about zergs.
The only thing i know for sure is that actually a full toss air army is basically unbeatable for zergs
2 Likes
The thing about swarm hosts is that the early days of HotS shows what happens when swarm hosts aren’t nerfed to death: you get 3-hour attrition matches that aren’t fun to cast or watch or play. Personally, I love swarm hosts and I think they get just the right amount of love as they are. Swarm host/nydus plays are a decent midgame strategy.
Full toss air isn’t unbeatable. Mass caster seems to be the best way: infestor/viper/queen/queen/queen.
In terms of meta-useless units, I point you to: ultralisk, mutalisk, hydralisk, and sort-of-corruptor.
No zergs are fine, now ofc for plat/diamond league it is very difficult to combat air toss since you need to control your vipers/corruptors while sending runbys to his bases and always try to know where his army is.
Also the myth about the zergs being better players, you can always have 1 or 2 pros that lead the pack but with zerg we had like 5-6 which is improbable that it happened by chance alone.
SH are still viable on pro play you just don’t have the apm for it.
2 Likes
I could understand charge to a certain extent
But the observer nerfs still make me cry
1 Like
I probably dont have room to speak being a gold 2 zerg but why not. I dont find air toss to be unbeatable. The thing is, its dangerous to play into the game of the toss going air. If he is going for a carrier+void ray comp of just mass of just that…then what I tend to do is get mass hydra with hopefully 3/3, and here is the weird part…Not too many corruptors. Just enough to have them focus fire the carriers while the hydras work on voids. Not done yet though, because infestors are a MUST in this situation. Typically I would say hopefully if you decide you must engage this army (Always better to pick off a few units at a time then run) then what you do, is you need like 10 infestors. The biggest issue is both of their units. So you gotta remove one as a immediate threat. I prefer to do micro shroud first to lower the air damage to my hydras, which I didnt know until vibe explained it but micro shroud reduces the damage from air by 50% and then your armor upgrades kick in. ITS AWESOME. After that, engage some fungals, like 2, and then neural as many carriers as you can. Focus down the voids and you should be golden(Get it? GOlden ArMaDa? No ok) One thing to keep in mind, is keep up the micro shroud for as long as you can while fighting this army. Treat it like a terran CC making workers. One at a time, when one is done add another one. I have found great success with this.
1 Like
No. Zerg is fine now.
Your statement about protoss air is another lie. Just use your “yoinks”!!
Your question is answered, nothing to see here anymore.
3 Likes
SH are the same cancer as before … maps are only a little better to face them
.they nerfd only abuse strategy of winfestor GGlords both of them are balanced now … still good but not game breaking. nerf to nydus was only gentle to stop abuse of spaming nydus everywhere .and they got big buff to lurkers (at least in zvt)
so no zerg did not got over-nerfed … they only fixed broken stuff
5 Likes
air toss is unbeatable, unless maybe zerg use caster to make area damage with viper, that is maybe the only solution i have not tryed. I used mostly infestor and viper grabing but didn’t think about this.
Some player tank their base with canon and shield, dont let the army venture outside too much, there you cant grab them, and then they just go out when they have enough bank
Always when I read about GGlord + Winfestor comp, I have in my mind: What the F was oponent doing all the time!!! This comp is most tech and gas heavy in whole game and most vulnerable at least 10 minutes, and even after reaching it, is vulnerable to every kind of runby!!! BL are the shyttiest T3 unit in the game, has the most counter, lowest dps, and Broodling can be simply ignored due extrahyper low dps.
1 Like
Yes… in perfect world is Toss player retarded and didnt split his Cariers and does not kill Vipers after PB, so Zerg just make 4 Vipers and every 7.dunno throw a PB
2 Likes
BL until this most recent patch were the best T3 anti-ground unit. they basically negated all toss and terran ground comps.
6 Likes
To be fair, para bomb is really good against void rays, and any air unit of protoss is worth Abduct and pretty slow. If you must face the protoss Armada, make plenty of vipers and corruptors and overseers so you can pick apart their fleet any time it moves out. And don’t forget air upgrades, cause the toss won’t. Fungals are nice to for damage and cloaking negation, but vipers are the better choice if you can’t multi task both. It’s a very gas heavy answer tho, so getting the gas income should be your first step in transitioning to this
1 Like
Zerg anti air trades realy well vs Protoss air armada, you just have to be stupid to sit under Storm to lose to it.
Protoss air comp comes in the super lategame usualy when Zerg has the spore forest that doesn’t cost supply and all queens assembled to defend their creep. Just keep abducting them until they bleed resources to death.
If you are having a hard time defending air just takes 20 drones of your 80 and build the spore forest and fill that sup with Crackings and attack the other side of the map, Protoss will be forced split to defend their mining site or their production since the speed is in the Cracklings side.
3 Likes
yaawn…watch HSC zest vs reynor. Its on new patch and you can see reynor effortlessly playing with zests carriers like toys. since the new carriers have a very slow dps ramp (the catapult upgrade was removed) you can now be in range of carriers for a moment without dying. just yoink carriers focus fire them and move away. or if you still feel in danger just yoink the yoinked carrier again. yoink-> move army away->yoink again-> focus fire. you can reproduce fallen corrupters way faster than he can rebuild his carriers. viper energy can be regenerated very quickly. build a few extra hatch just for vipers.
repeat until you finally won
5 Likes
SWARM HOST USELESS? PLEASE
I think zerg is fine for now
6 Likes
At the OP, I think the general consensus across the community is that Zerg is still by far the best race particularly in pro level play but across all levels of play as well. Playing Zerg is like having homefield advantage.
5 Likes
difficult topic:
For the reason that we have blance and skill.
example Reynor defeated Zest at HSC on the patch. Also in a long game against air Toss.
There are comps/ playstyles that are harder to play.
example Neuro (GM zerg) said just because something works for Dark/Serral/Maru/Stats or other pros doesn’t mean it will work for you. Here is a skill difference.
Also PIG (GM random) said he tries to avoid building viper/infestor at the same time. Also with his T games he doesn’t want to have too much mixed.
But I agree Turtle air Toss is no fun. At T you can use Sh/ lurker /Bl, because T has more ground units. But P you need anti air and something to kill the cannons/ SB at the same time.
agree with the P part, T have Thor.
1 Like