So here’s another personal nag about a commander I’ve recently tried out.
After playing with H&H for a while, I’ve come to notice that Han’s Widow Mines are… dare I say not very useful.
Aside from usage in certain defense maps (which is not a lot, especially considering in most of them you’re better off running literally anything else), I see very little opportunity for Widow Mines to actually show off some potential.
The way I see it, Widow Mines are more like a static defense with big but slow burst damage. Once they’re out of juice, they’re a sitting duck until they can fire again.
Inherently, having a defensive unit is not bad. However, my issue with these is how they’re completely overshadowed by everything else: Hellbats do a way better job of holding their ground and fending off enemies while Hellions, Reapers and Horner’s units can dish out plenty of damage on their own.
Widow Mines feel like an unnecessary addition in H&H’s kit that I would either see replaced with something else or buffed to increase its potential, be it the ability to fire without being burrowed or something.
To summarize, H&H’s Widow Mines are useless compared to everything else considering their main role is already overshadowed by the fact you can have a sizeable, cheap and powerful army that can do the same AND keep pushing at the same time.
Now before people start listing every reason why I’m wrong, this is based on my personal feelings and experiences. I’ll be glad to hear the thoughts of anyone else who can prove me wrong and/or give me another view on the subject.
They are amazing units, but they do feel kinda pointless in H&H’s kit, kinda like Fenix’s Disruptors.
I use them mostly for spawn camping and softening some waves I don’t wanna deal with at 100% power. Sometimes also I use them to kill Ghosts that try to nuke my base. Feels good to overkill them.
I don’t use them much myself, but the good news is that they aren’t too vulerable if there’s no detection, you should use them only to deal with enemy waves or spawn camp, even then you’ll have to use your army to deal with the beefy ones.
I can see them being used for specific mutations where you can’t afford to lose units, but definitelly they aren’t meant for offensive play.
I like to make a few mines and cover them with mag mines on Rifts to Korhal - all waves come from right side, set up mines there and push left and top with the army.
Other than that, it is hard to make good use of them.
A suggestion I’ve made before is to have them be able to fire their sentinel missile while mobile albeit at a much slower rate than while burrowed. That way they could be like Nova’s ghosts that provide good burst damage but suck at sustained fights. They’ve already done this to swarm/creeper hosts for zerg, I don’t see why it’s not a bad idea for H&H to add in a little bit more variety.
oh you again
after i tried Zeratul units and got bored of macro and micro ive also switched to H&H…
I actually used widow mines in every mission where there is only one enemy spawn or a small passage where they all pass by.
Like, at rifts to korhal i burrow 8-10 widow mines in a bit spread cluster and throw the magnet mines on top of them. Every groundcomp passing trough the passage gets shredded or completely wiped out. Just some aircomps flyby the passage.
They are really good for things like that and are absolutely worth their price. Otherwise they have good burst but no real sustained damage and that is something, H&H kit is really missing …
While Reapers normally cost gas, and are supposed to be some “obligatory mineral dump” that most COs have, they may as well make WM cost 0 gas, making it on par with Mira’s entire wares.
I like WM, but they’re not 100% effective. You’ll want to utilize other stuff to clear out stragglers, like Missile Turrets (AA), MM, and Strike Fighters (AG). Having Supply Depots to block paths helps keep WM alive longer.
In Lock & Load, I make a group of them, and burrow them at each lock we capture. Still better than nothing. It also provides vision so that I can deploy Horner units there ASAP, as well as if my ally has a similar capability.
This is the only real issue with them. They stick out like a sore thumb by virtue of being the most niche and situational units in Han’s arsenal, in addition to costing Vespene. It’s a shame because mines are extremely fun to play around with, but can only be used for defensive purposes, and if you want to play around with them, you greatly cut into your gas for Horner forces.
Each unit produced should give the Galleon some sort of bonus, such as a produced Widow Mine giving Galleon x a +1Widow Mine missile or something. That kind of mechanic would be cool.
An alternative thing to do could be to remove their supply cost. Gas is precious for H&H, but widow mines aren’t inherently bad units. On some maps I could easily see trading away a set of wraiths for having an extra 20 widow mines parked somewhere, especially on maps like Oblivion Express or Void Launch where the objectives and attack waves both come at you through well known and telegraphed paths. But if I had to trade 20 reapers for 20 widow mines (I don’t even know if they cost 1 or 2 supply, that’s how little I look at them right now) that’s a much harder sell.
Hmm? What exactly would this accomplish other than nerf Horner’s health due to the SO bonuses? With their enhanced depots, H&H aren’t really wanting for supply.
It would let you build up a large mass of widow mines without eating into your reaper count. As I said, trading away one set of wraiths to afford the gas cost of the mines becomes a significantly harder sell if youre also losing the equivalent supply in reapers.
Has no one mentioned CoA yet? Wow. I like to go Mass Mine there, and delete Amon’s Hybrid and Champion Supporters.
I agree with other posters about removing gas cost, but what if we made them able to shoot Structures, instead? It would make them way more useful for pushing bases, and that might be the actual problem, because
WM’s are Mira’s only Units that can’t attack Structures.
To me, that feels like trying to shoehorn them into a role that Han already has better units for. Widowmines are, at their core, defensive and disposable ambush units, and they should be better at their role as expendable mines by making them easier to mass as Mineral Only sinks.
If one wants to push into bases, Reapers and noobtubing Hellions already fill that role for Han better than anything Widowmines could ever do and be cheaper while doing it.
…