Usually we discuss how a certain commander must be uped. But I think people agree that Zeratul is stupidly overpowered from the very beginning.
I could actually write here my own suggestions how to reasonably nerf him but I decided to ask the community. If we have a good discussion, I will later collect good ideas in the 1st post.
2 Likes
Cannons - yeah, they could use a significant nerf
Minigame - make the artifacts spawn in bases so it feels earned
The rest of his stuff is fine or in a few cases (ex. Legions) could use some love. He’s a pretty unique commander and while I’m not always in the mood for him, I think most of his stuff is generally OK where it is.
9 Likes
I think his cannons are overshadowing his other units in a silly and negative way, far, FAR more so than infested bunkers ever did. But nerfs in co-op seem to be either nothing or floor it, so I’m not hoping for a nerf to them as is.
What I think would be great is a buff to his army in the form of additional manual control options. Zeratul’s army largely cannot be microd, since the auto-stuff will force your units to do it their way and in some cases (disruptors) these behaviors cannot be turned off.
I mean, he has a call down which literally can only be a-moved. Even Stukov’s bio CAN be microd if you really want to. But not the legions.
And his disruptors, oh goodness. Their AI is terrible, I have oft seen 6 disruptors fire and manage to kill a combined total of 2 roaches. It’s almost like they are trying to miss. But you can’t turn off autocast on them because it’s their “attack”. And what’s worse, if you do forcefully try to manual cast, not only does it not let you click unless all disruptors are in range of that point (like the stalker bug he used to have) but also they literally all fire at once, meaning that they still whiff hugely. Fenix’s disruptors, costing 1/4 as much, are each significantly better 1 for 1 because they don’t have to get lucky to actually hit enemies. You can aim!
/rant
5 Likes
I actually like it how it is. I would rather hunt and find than more hack and slash, we have enough commanders getting power from killing baddies already.
1 Like
Don’t think he is overpowered at all.
As many said, his cannon is a little too straight forward for a commander with fairly straight forward everything already (and it has little drawback). This can seem over-shadowing and monotonous.
Outside of that, I maintain that anyone who feels Zeratul is “too powerful” needs to really get out there and learn a bit more.
14 Likes
They are most reliably designed to protect. Therefore, I propose to add a second manual attack mode (like Fenix), make damage and area more and slow down.
TBH, I don’t mind it how it is, the artifact hunt is a cool idea, just feels a bit… uninteractive I guess? Not UNEARNED per se, but I’d like to see a bit more oomph to it. Whether it be spawning in bases or defensive waves spawning when you get close to them or… something. As is they tend to just be… out there randomly for no reason.
I dunno. It’s not something I feel super strongly about.
Is mass cannons strictly an NA or EU thing? Because in my thousands (or like a couple hundred since Zeratul’s release) of co-op games on the Kr server, i’m pretty sure I can count on one hand the number of games where my Zeratul ally went mass cannons. Sometimes they make an army and then just use the excess resources on cannons i.e. not really committing to them. So I would never say that his cannons are overshadowing the rest of his arsenal. Maybe you guys have had a different co-op experience or something, idk.
I don’t feel he is overpowered, but I do feel that he is somewhat unfun to play because of how his mechanics are fairly plain. Simplified tech tree, automatic upgrades, mostly a-move army etc. The artifact searching mechanism is the only thing that introduces some complexity in his gameplay and his cannons are the only thing that requires good macro.
12 Likes
No nerfs only buffs, this not some competitive platform.
9 Likes
Nerf his special move cancel into cannons and increase plus frames on the autoblink
I think he is fine as he is until EVERYONE I match with who uses him doesn’t suck and not build I it’s for 10 minutes
Cannons certainly need to be knocked down a peg. They completely overshadow most of his limited other builds, and take a fraction of the effort of basically any other build in Co-op. Even older Infested Bunkers took more effort than Rapid-fire + Cannon images.
This whole mantra of “This isn’t Comp so we don’t need nerfs” is blind silliness that belongs on the Arcade.
8 Likes
My suggestions
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cannon projections cost resources
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5 artifacts instead of 3 (but ~50% of time to cooldown, and bonuses at 1, 3. and 5 artifacts)
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boost the less used top bar options
3 Likes
Are you serious? This is the worst Zeratul’s gameplay part and you want to make it double? Searching for pieces is the most random thing in co-op - you may get all of them right upon your nose and become OP instantly or you can spend nearly entire game in vain searches.
1 Like
Why can’t protoss have one op commander? Vorazun was already nerfed to hell. Meanwhile Zergs take 4 out of 5 top OP spots.
9 Likes
It’s actually rather funny to me that people say cannons are outright OP.I’ll go Zagara or Kerri on Lock&Lock or Void Thrashers and you go mass Zera cannons. Who do you think will get most of the kills? Sure, they’ve got some cases where nothing else can touch them, but there’s plenty of times where other commanders completely thrash cannon builds. Sure, if cannon builds are boring that’s fine, I’m sure there’s plenty of new players who like a simpler style of play.
7 Likes
If that were truly the case then why do we see various unit comps being recommended for quite a few brutations? Also, do you happen to know all builds being used for each of the speedruns? If cannons completely overshadow then they should be the best choice for all solo speedruns.
7 Likes
Zeratul without any masteries can solo any brutal mission with the player being allowed to use only the mouse.
Zeratul is the combination of brain dead easy and brokenly overpowered that makes every match he is in utterly boring and not fun to play.
3 Likes
I’m on the side of not needing to nerf him.
Limiting his cannons’ projections in some way maybe. Some way to prevent so many projections being up at once and they’d be fine; without touching the cannons themselves, mind.
Unit wise, he’s perfectly fine, he’s easily shown up by other commanders for unit strength overall. Plus it’s coop, strengths (and weaknesses) should be emphasized not balanced to make everyone the same.
4 Likes
I as many others think that the cannons should be toned down a bit but I don’t want him nerfed.
I would like him changed to something I personally found fun but it’s ok if that never happens I’ll just don’t play him and that way people that like him can continue to play him. There are many good commanders to play anyways.
1 Like