Give Zerg One Option At Least?

General Discussion
1

First of im from EU server so this is the profile

With all these nerfs zerg needs an option.

With zerg late game being useless and lacking the anti-air, winning vs late game skytoss w strom archon seems unlikely, shroud as confirmed by every pro is useless more so because hydras are not a late game unit. Also hydras are nerfed 3 time as well with DPS and upgdrades splitting into 2.

No mid game, cause Hydra has 2 upgrades and way to slow(even on creep) and also muta ling bane is not an option because of Thor alone.

Which was the best meta that has ever been, Muta-ling-bane vs Marine-mara-mvac-WM was the best meta it captured audiences like no other comp, exciting to watch exciting to play as both armies have the potential to destroy each other and have the ability to either harass or go for a counter. Both armies were not 1 time build invincible armies both players had to constantly add but try to keep their expensive gas units alive as they try to engage with an efficient trade.

Just NERF THOR
its a no skill a-move kill it all unit just with helion spamm around it, unit is invincible.

Thor makes muta play impossible and it also kills Broodlords(highest zerg tech LUL) its cheap factory produced too cost efficient. It needs to be nerfed preferably in range to allow Broodlords to be played and in Splash to allow at least some muta play. Terran just spamming tank thor with helion yolo all game a moves with “deathball” even on creep its unstoppable mass Thor even kills viper in High impact mode before it casts Blinding cloud… Its terrible for the game. too many zergs already stopped playing the game cos in masters 1 to masters 3 and below in diamond every terrans best match up is TvZ every terran has 60% and above vs zerg maybe in the top %00,1 pro zergs beats or equlise the win rates but its irrelevant… Circuit is over sc2 is dying and OP thor is only speeding that process up cause zergs quit and stopped watching because of 1 unit that kills zerg late game and mid game options… 1 op unit that requires the control of a phone gamer… And turns Sc2 into a phone game as well…

even in GM
https : // www. rankedftw. com/stats/races/1v1/#v=2&r=-2&l=-2
zerg has the least population
Globally all gms
zerg235(29.82%) Protoss293(37.18%) Terran247(31.35%)

And this is masters
Zerg3 886(30.89%) Protoss3 869(30.76%) Terran 4 213(33.49%

This is not fair. Terran having stronger late game with all its early game domminance is an absurdity. It kills the game, i have 54% vs Protoss %68 in zvz and %30 vs Terran but its not just me. This terran is broken in TvZ and it needs fixing.

2 Likes
2

Thor vs muta is in the same state it was in HotS, just in case you didn’t know.

Its not. You just don’t get a free win anymore against toss or terran.

Hydras have a speed of 3.15 off creep without the upgrade and 3.93 with the upgrade.

On creep hydras have a speed of 4.09, and with the speed upgrade they have a speed of 5.12. They aren’t slow by any means, and on creep, they’re EXTREMELY mobile.

Ling Bling can kill Hellbat Thor as long as the Banes roll through the Hellbats first. Plus, Lurkers absolutely destroy Thors.

With tanks, you need blinding cloud, but realistically speaking if you dont engage from a single point you are going to have a much better time. Setting up a surround, blinding cloud, and run in.

Lol. Firstly, Thors do significantly less damage to Vipers than they did prior to the patch, so bursting Vipers down is harder and requires more Thors, or several shots from multiple Thors to do so.

It really isn’t. At all. In fact, this year’s total prize pool is arguably larger than previous years. The number they announced in the blizzard post earlier in the month didn’t include the GSL prize, which would increase the pool further still.

It sounds like your TvZ sucks. Balance really isn’t your issue and hardly affects us. There is something else going on, I guarantee you. Either poor decision making, bad timings, or simply being outclassed by better players (though I doubt that last one). If you struggle with mech, I seriously doubt that you know how to actually play against it. Especially turtle mech.

7 Likes
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Lurker/muta is fun though.

Do you need help for your own game or are you complaining because you don’t want to use your brain on Sc2?

Here is a late-game ZvT:
https://drop.sc/replay/13030675
Didn’t find the other one - sorry.

4

If you watch pros and quote them even, you should have noticed that they dont have any problem with skytoss air. Yes shroud is useless. It got buffed but its still useless but they dont actually need shroud. So just delete the spell. But maybe its like the ultralisk in serral vs reynor where you just try to trick players into making dumb decision by teching and building dumb things. If ultras never existed serral would have won the game :stuck_out_tongue:

5

Corruptor is the best anti air flier. Queen is the best AA unit cost wise. Infestor and vipers have one of the best spells against air.

Please… Dont try the “Zerg AA weak” thing…

3 Likes
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Mutalisks are much worse in LOTV because there’s less eco. So every counter is better than it used to be.

lol, “free win”. Zerg lost lots of late games. There was data taken around WCS late game wins and other races were on par. Protoss had difficulty with late game but Terran won plenty with mass BC.

Thors got an 18% dps buff against vipers

7

You forgot about the all powerful yoink didn’t you?

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DPS, yes. But thors were always a burst oriented unit, so there is actually more counterplay now. While they fire faster they do less burst damage, meaning vipers can still get off a spell or two before going down unless several thors are firing on them at once.

1 Like
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Don’t even need to read this. If you think zerg is underpowered still; you got a few screws loose in the dome. Zerg is the most dominant race in this godforsaken game. Just git gud noob, as the pro players around here say.

2 Likes
10

DPS is all that matters. They snipe vipers much faster than they used to, especially with their increased range.

11

Burst damage is far more important.

E.g. WM has the lowest DPS in game.

12

You Sure got the source? (Pls dont Link batz source pls dont Link batz source pls dont Link batz source)

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Saing Viper dies to mass thor is like saying bane dies to mass marine. Yes, one does. But even still, it can throw out 2 spells before that, killing 2 Thors.

Is viper dead? Yes. Are 2 Thors dead? Yes. One is more valuable than the other.

1 Like
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I agree, Nerf Thor / Nerf Battlecruiser and Nerf Banelings +5HP upgrade and nerf lurker.

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https://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/d1rjwl/some_fun_wcs_fall_2019_stats/

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Vipers have 150hp and Thor shots used to deal 40 damage instead of 25 now, except the rate of fire is much faster. DPS is what matters here. Widow mines are exceptions.

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Yeah thats the same that batz linked. It is most unwise to draw any conclusion out of that without any in depth analysis because the data itself is pretty flawed. First of all the stats were created by someone within the community who uploaded all the replays by himself. Mistakes can happen as someone pointed out: “just fyi there are some replays missing (43 games) and the 2nd starkiller vs gerald match is in twice” (his reply: “thanks!”) so we dont know if it was updated or not.
Then it is not stated if everything was uploaded or just the playoffs but based on the numbers i would guess it was playoff but i dont know. Brackets arent fair. A lot of mismatches happen (high mmr differences) and based on that low count of matches played that is very very impactful for these kinds of stats. Like for example it even “shows” that zerg is favored in the midgame which is rather unlikely based on recent patch notes which nerfed for example warp prism or zealots.
Then, if you call every match a lategame match that is played longer than 20 minutes its pretty hard to say if those matches were really lategame (lategame army) or drawn out midgame/lategamish army which can happen at 20 minutes for sure (for example failed rush or pretty aggressive playstyle in that match in general) and even then its hard to say if lategame wasnt heavily influenced by midgame meaning someone got the upper hand in midgame but couldnt finish the game but the match went on for a bit longer into lategame where he finally got the win.

There are some other things too like for example good players can heavily influence the statistics by their playstyle. You can always expect certain players to be in the higher bracket. For zerg it would be reynor elazer and serral. For terran it would be heromarine and special. For toss it would be Showtime and neeb. Showtime and neeb are known for their more conservative playstyle which means that its more likely that they will play lategame in their matches to the higher bracket. unlike for example heromarine and special who will often prefer strong harassment and midgame pushes. Also it isnt the case that the player will face an equal distribution of races which means it can happen than for example neeb or showtime played more often against zerg players which would have also an impact on the stats.

Stats of tournaments are fun but really really not reliable for a quick overview of current balance in early/mid/late game. If you would look at equal pairings only and analyse in depth what happend and interview the pro players afterwards that would be much more reliable than this random data.

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Good thing you post the profile link. You are master ranked. This only proves average zerg Joe reach a master rank and still demand nerfs to other races because it’s not enough. :smiley:

19

DPS of new thor is lower.

Also, “DPS matters, except when It doesnt suit my agenda.” No. It matters or not. Pick one.

1 Like
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Zerg have weak anti-air, you’re an idiot.

Well that’s proof you are an idiot.